Upgraded Saxon Patrol to plod on until 2015.

[Themanwho]

Yes, SAXON may be better than tabbing, but so is catching a National Express coach.

I am just wondering whether the money spent on SAXON would be more wisely spent on a better form of wheeled or tracked APC, that might actually offer a reasonable amount of protection and mount decent armament, as opposed to a pintle mounted or turreted GPMG.

SAXON is a bag of titts, no unit I know of actually wants to be equipped with it.

 

[The-Daddy]

its no wonder 2 RGJ swapped theirs for the newish 432

 

[delberto]

Maybe I should change my post to say " the singlemost useless vehicle presently used by the British Army", just to stop a variation on the Monty Python sketch:

"Saxon? Eeeh luxury! I used to have to push my Saladin with square wheels fitted up Hungry Hill every day for seventeen hours twice a week"

"That were nuthin'. My Dingo Scout car used to kill me stone dead every night and do donuts on me grave"

...and so on.

I'd argue that the RB44 has won that title hands down....

 

[Dewi_Sant]

I remeber going into SOB on Telic 5 and the Welsh Guards were parking one against the main gate to keep it closed. Seems thats all it was good for, and then it broke down and had to be pulled out the way.

 

[Themanwho]

Maybe I should change my post to say " the singlemost useless vehicle presently used by the British Army", just to stop a variation on the Monty Python sketch:

"Saxon? Eeeh luxury! I used to have to push my Saladin with square wheels fitted up Hungry Hill every day for seventeen hours twice a week"

"That were nuthin'. My Dingo Scout car used to kill me stone dead every night and do donuts on me grave"

...and so on.

I'd argue that the RB44 has won that title hands down....

Fair one, but RB44 has not been used on ops to my knowledge (certainly not extensively), whereas SAXON has been and still is.

 

[brighton hippy]

we use have a saladin on the books in cyprus impressive looking beastie even if only used as a road block or to tow things
there was a claim some cav officer had found some 6pd ammo for it

 

[Active_Edge_841]

Yes, SAXON may be better than tabbing, but so is catching a National Express coach.

I am just wondering whether the money spent on SAXON would be more wisely spent on a better form of wheeled or tracked APC, that might actually offer a reasonable amount of protection and mount decent armament, as opposed to a pintle mounted or turreted GPMG.

SAXON is a bag of titts, no unit I know of actually wants to be equipped with it.

Agree, however, have we ever got anything that we wanted?

As I said earlier, it's better than nothing.

As for money more wisely spent on better form of wheeled or tracked APC......................Aussie Bushmaster anyone?

 

[Detmolderstrasse]

As well as been used by the Aussies in Iraq, Bushmaster is also now being used by the cloggies in Afghanistan, looks like a good battle bus........can we have some?

 

[CrapSpy]

No. The Treasury will take one look at the photos and say somenthing along the lines of "you've already got something that looks like that."

 

[The-Daddy]

Seems much better than the Saxon but still think an LAV would be more suitable for a British Infantry Battalion whose role seems to change with the seasons

 

[lanky]

Regardless of upgrade, SAXON will remain an under-armoured, under-powered bullet magnet which has little to no cross country capability.

What other vehicle under 10 tonnes offers greater protection?

Until the procurement of Mastiff, it was the only vehicle in the Army with any serious hint of mine protection (not including specialist EOD, of course).

Surely Viking is the answer:

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.2575

It weighs 10 tonnes fully loaded, can be slung under a Chinook, and if split into two then by Merlin!! It is armoured (okay it is not a Warrior but I would love to see a Warrior slung under a Merlin!). It is also relatively cheap, needs no development, testing or modification from the RM spec and could be ordered from the factory today...

While we are at it, why spend billions on the FRES (or however it is spelt), when Warrior and some Scimitar could probably do the job, cheaply, and do it well...

 

[brighton hippy]

vikings too bloody expensive

 

[lanky]

vikings too bloody expensive

Too expensive? But surely if the Army buy a lot (ie: a lot more than the RM) you would get a discount? But one get one free??

 

[Mike_2817]

we use have a saladin on the books in cyprus impressive looking beastie even if only used as a road block or to tow things
there was a claim some cav officer had found some 6pd ammo for it

There was plenty of ammo for it as it used the same 76mm Gun ammo as the Scorpion Tank before it had the Fox 30mm Turret added and called the Sabre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Saladin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Armoured_Reconnaissance_Vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV101_Scorpion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_AFV

 

[msr]

I'd argue that the RB44 has won that title hands down....

But given that you cannot get brake servos for them any more, it can't be much longer before the whole fleet is VOR - bit like the Light Gun for the last 3 months and very probably for the next three...

msr

 

[Cardinal]

vikings too bloody expensive

The Vikings worked out to be just about free. The initial development, design, specs trials and testing were paid for by the RN and as a result all sales, by the manufacturer to second nations resulted in a unit price reduction of those brought by the RN.

As I understand it each British vehicle was brought at the unit price on a cashback/discout type scheme which reduced the vehicles to almost nil cost.

Any further British purchases of this expensive vehicle would also generate similar discounts which means the price the MOD would pay is lower than the "list price".

The RN was able to do this, amongst other things by reducing the number of ships in service early, reducing sea days of other vessels to a minimum and other cost savings. Vikiing is where it paid off, the two future CV's and the last 2 of 8 Type 45's were the other part of the bargin struck with the MOD. Unfortunately the CV's probably never will be built and the last 2 type 45's have been cancelled.

But that s Navy issue, procuring more Vikings would not be as expensive as it might first appear.

Cardinal

 

[Boxy]

Too good for the likes of us, I mean it works & is in service.....

 

[Cardinal]

Too good for the likes of us, I mean it works & is in service.....

See what happens when the MOD keeps its nose out? The company making Viking had a long relationship going back decades with the RM/RN with the BV202, 204 and 206.

It really is a case of smart procurement and no men in suits fom London involved! No private finance initiatives, no study groups, focus groups or endless and expensive committee staging procurement through key stage's etc

Just servicemen who get on with the job and industry partners who want to build the product.

Now we need boots, rifles, trucks, APC's, Armour, Artillery, Ships, Helecopters......................

Cardinal

 

[Mike_2817]

Too good for the likes of us, I mean it works & is in service.....

See what happens when the MOD keeps its nose out? The company making Viking had a long relationship going back decades with the RM/RN with the BV202, 204 and 206.Cardinal

The Army had/has stocks of BV Snow Cats for AMF(L) and always had a good logistics relationship with the RM's Workshop which was RAOC - RLC/REME run anyway. I do not see why Viking should not be in Army Service as well.

 

[HeavyHorse]

Wouldn't Spartan be useful in this role or not enough troop capacicty? Just trying to think of other vehicles which are available off the shelf now...