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9.414

Old-Salt
Whilst instructing at the Guards Depot I walked on the grass outside of Company HQ. I was spotted doing so by the CSM, a particularly spiteful individual, who put me "On report" as it was in those days.

Come the day I was marched in and halted, turned to the left, and on hearing my name read stepped forward and saluted at the same time. The CSM then read the charge and proceeded to give his evidence. Pregnant pause and then from the Company Commander a plaintive "It's a bit petty isn't it CSM" I cringed inside realising that I had got off at the expense of making the CSM look foolish.
Anything like this?
 

ACAB

LE
Some Guards types might correct me, but didn‘t they have a system where the Company would enter it all in ledger which would have to be presented to the Adjutant weekly?
I think the idea was as above, nothing too heavy handed going on. Or they were all equally vicious, not sure depending on who to believe.
We had Company Entries and Regimental Entries , The regimental were the Criminal ones.
 
Anything like this?
I had a mate who was a Grenadier L/Sgt clerk in Shape, Belguim. He was a great guy and very intelligent (he could read and write) but had been in the Guards system too long. He was still very tick tock and it was a bit of a cultural shock outside in the normal world. I used to say to him "Hang on Pete, I'll just wind you up".

I remember watching a football match between the Guards and the Royal Engineers. At the end of the match when the REs team walked up to the Brigadier individually to collect their winning plaques and shake hands. The Guards team marched up tick tock slam the foot in.

It was the same for the swimming - Guards team almost naked except for their budgie smuggling speedos (This was the early 70s) march up tick tock, slam the foot in. about turn and tick tock off.

And they then wonder why they have f**ked knees in later life.
 
We had Company Entries and Regimental Entries , The regimental were the Criminal ones.
When I went on exercise Coconut grove in Fiji with B company 1 Cheshires in 1984, 2 Scots Guards had been on the exercise the year before. I was looking through a folder containing their exercise reports.

In it were some pre printed forms which were basically the 252 procedure but was called Scots Guards form 4 or some such. At the bottom the form after the OC pronounces sentence, the culprit barkes out - "I thank you for your leniency sir"

I could just imagine it ....

"Guardsman McTavish I sentence you to be shot at dawn by firing squad"

"I thank you for your leniency sir"

We had a lad who was a jaudy who transfered to us from the Scots Guards. He said that in the early seventies he had been blown up by bomb while in a sanger in NI. He survived with just cuts and bruises, but when he got back he was instantly charged for some minor petty thing. He wasn't even asked how he was. Another time he was charged by a bloke who he had been best man to.

He was somewhat bitter about his experience in the Guards.

In Hong Kong with 4 Gurkha battalions and 1 British, things tended to be done the Brigade of Gurkhas way which the British Battalion generaly went along with. 1 Bn Coldstreams took over from the Cheshires. The Gurkhas hierarchy weren't happy as the Guards Battalions did things there own way.

The Gurkha way was fighting the Pathans on the NW frontier with the old Indian army.

The Guards way was re-fighting the Battle of Waterloo.

Good bunch of lads but certainly have a different way of doing things.
 
Be careful. Admonishment is indeed a recording of ‘charge proved’ on the conduct sheet. Although the lowest punishment, it is surprising the number of people that think it is a finding of “not guilty, but watch your step”.
It is recorded on the conduct sheet, and can be recorded on a PNC record.
I wonder how it can be recorded on the PNC unless it is a recordable offence in criminal law where DNA, Fingerprints and photograph are taken.

Some things such as AWOL which soldiers get banged up for in military nick are not offences in civilian law.

I always thought that Admonishment meant that tecnically you were guilty but the moral right was yours.
 
Nope Stonker has the right of it. Traffic police in real life. I remember reflecting on this at the time. Why? Just why?

Be like an HGV driver for a national freight mover joining the RLC to get some professional trucking experience.

Sorry back on thread; simply deny everything! It seems to cause much confusion, rage and discomfort.
With the police you used to get 15 days special paid leave for camp and 10 days special paid leave for week-ends, so for national units like 164 Provo Coy (V) who only have to do 2 week-ends and a 15 day camp it was a paid holiday.

Others liked to do something different. There were a few Airborne plod in 10 Para. The Int officer was a DI in SB in civil life.
 
The other one is (was?) Gilbert Blades!
I remember Par Avion senior telling me that when he was at RAF Seletar when we were in Singapore -1962-4 there was a Eurasian Barrister that would represent other ranks at court martials during which he generally ran rings around the prosecution.

He was was a honoury member of the Sergeants mess. He could have been a member of the officers mess, but apparently he had received some slight from them which really rankled - probably race and class based. Hence he loved sticking it to the officer class and defending working class heroes.
 
Because that was clearly in the best interests of . . . . . . . . ???

Well done you. Seriously.

But it was clear to me that it was going to be a shitstorm of the most futile sort, from the moment the words "RMP involved" entered the room.

30 years served, and from that entire time - ye gods and little fishes - I hold not one recollection of a single satisfactory professional encounter with Monkeys going about their duties with quiet competence :roll:
To be fair to the RMP though, I remember reading a citation for the DCM for an RMP S/Sgt in GW/1 in which he carried out route clearance for 1 British Armoured Division in which the ground was littered with MRLS bomblets in which it was his leadership of his very stressed company which got the job down and 1 Armoured Div on the right route.
 
True. Not only are there the old “civvy” offences, but these as well. Like AF06 s.11 (1), striking a superior officer. Rest assured, mistreating subordinates is not recordable (AF06 s. 22).
Indeed, I was also reading discussion on this in the HoC where it was acknowledged that technically misconduct towards an Officer could mean things like not saluting, disobeying an order to get a haircut etc.

It was considered unlikely that such offences would be PNC recorded and that when it came to disclosure discretion by DBS (or whatever body checks these days) guidance was in place to disregard, but then again the ex-RAF bloke found out the hard way this doesn't always happen.

So for all of those who tapped the boards for telling someone further up the food chain to do one with accompanying expletives then expect the unexpected.
 
I wonder how it can be recorded on the PNC unless it is a recordable offence in criminal law where DNA, Fingerprints and photograph are taken.

Some things such as AWOL which soldiers get banged up for in military nick are not offences in civilian law.

I always thought that Admonishment meant that tecnically you were guilty but the moral right was yours.
Not sure of the detail but RMP do access and update PNC as needed.
 
That was more to do with the sheer number of full-screw RD's who thought they were Guards RSM's.



It was during basic and, at that time, I didn't have the bollocks to take that route.

In hindsight, it was just a robust introduction to military humour.
OC was a keen runner and I was Army athletics team.........I guess I was lucky.
How on earth were you in the Army Athletics Team while you were partway through basic training?
 
I used to respect the forces. Now I just know you're a whining bunch of bleating cnuts.
Failing to maintain your powers of comprehension, and your manners in a serviceable condition: that's Negligence Misuse and Damage, punishable (from memory) under Section 69 of AA55, as was, with your words(above) as evidence.

Civvies :roll:
 
143 Bde (TA units, W Midlands) had a goodly number of such folk on the books of their RMP contingent.

One one bde organised event (I forget the details) an RMP patrol had cause to flag down a short wheelbase landrover, being driven at excessive speed along a publicly accessible road through the traiing area where the event was happening.

Said projectile had a sole occupant, to wit the Bde Comd (known universally and less than affectionately by all ranks as 'Sad Sam', late WFR).

When flagged down and questioned by the JNCOs making up the RMP patrol, his automatic (and very huffy response was of the "Look here Corporal, Don't You Know Who I Am!?" variety.

Which prompted the unexpected response: "Well sir, if you want to play that game, would you like to know who we are?" followed by the production of a pair of proper copper warrant cards, and a dressing down for driving like a twat.

Love that story.
That'll be 116 Pro Coy (V) - Coy HQ in Wolverhampton with a Det in Manchester - a very good bunch, of whom two made the ultimate sacrifice on TELIC and HERRICK.
 
How on earth were you in the Army Athletics Team while you were partway through basic training?
Two years at Harrogate......with Bill C**n (DS, marathon), Pete Fr***an (DS, 800m) and another fella who ran 3000m but his name escapes me.
 
To be fair to the RMP though, I remember reading a citation for the DCM for an RMP S/Sgt in GW/1 in which he carried out route clearance for 1 British Armoured Division in which the ground was littered with MRLS bomblets in which it was his leadership of his very stressed company which got the job down and 1 Armoured Div on the right route.
Here is his DCM citation from the London Gazette:

'Staff Sergeant Davies commanded 3 Platoon, 203 Provost Company which was under tactical command of HQ 7 Armoured Brigade for Operation Granby. His duties required him to move early through the obstacle breach in wheeled vehicles, alongside the armoured reconnaissance, in order to lay out the Brigade rendezvous line on the far side of the breach, and establish the Forming Up Point (FUP) for the Brigade Administrative Area (BAA). Thereafter, he would be responsible for signing the axis of advance so that the BAA could follow hard up on the Brigade in order to provide logistic support.

'On 25 February 1991, early Allied successes had advanced timings for the Brigade's passage of lines, and the forward elements were already some four hours ahead of the BAA by the time the FUP was reached. Best speed was therefore required if the BAA was to provide close logistic support to the Brigade and, in turn, receive protection on the battlefield.

'The FUP proved, on occupation, to be covered in Multi Launch Rocket System bomblets to the extent that the BAA group sustained three wounded and one killed within a short time of arriving in the area. Staff Sergeant Davies's platoon itself had already lost one Landrover and a motorcycle due to this hazard. With the onset of darkness and with rain and cloud making visibility almost nil, Staff Sergeant Davies was ordered by the Brigade Provost Officer to clear safe lanes, to allow the BAA to form up and pass through the FUP. The alternative was clearly the loss of critical logistic vehicles and possibly more lives. He, therefore, personally led his soldiers in clearing the necessary routes of bomblets—in full knowledge of their potential lethality—using issue shovels.

'Despite an explosion early in the proceedings, which fortunately inflicted no injury, Staff Sergeant Davies continued to work against the clock to clear the way for the 600 plus vehicles of the BAA. In due course, the BAA was able to occupy its FUP and proceed up the line of advance with minimum delay. Staff Sergeant Davies continued to recce and lay the route for the BAA through the next 200 kilometres of enemy territory, throughout motivating an increasingly tired and stressed platoon through many battlefield hazards.


'Staff Sergeant Davies's act was one of exemplary personal courage and robust leadership.'

Exemplo Ducemus :)
 
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9.414

Old-Salt
How on earth were you in the Army Athletics Team while you were partway through basic training?
Not common but not unknown. At RMAS I was an academy starred player from week 1 and was off representing at inter-service events during our initial "four week lock-in". Having already been a County representative and competed at UK level events might have helped. I was not alone, one of my county team was in the same intake.
 
Here is his DCM citation from the London Gazette:

'Staff Sergeant Davies commanded 3 Platoon, 203 Provost Company which was under tactical command of HQ 7 Armoured Brigade for Operation Granby. His duties required him to move early through the obstacle breach in wheeled vehicles, alongside the armoured reconnaissance, in order to lay out the Brigade rendezvous line on the far side of the breach, and establish the Forming Up Point (FUP) for the Brigade Administrative Area (BAA). Thereafter, he would be responsible for signing the axis of advance so that the BAA could follow hard up on the Brigade in order to provide logistic support.

'On 25 February 1991, early Allied successes had advanced timings for the Brigade's passage of lines, and the forward elements were already some four hours ahead of the BAA by the time the FUP was reached. Best speed was therefore required if the BAA was to provide close logistic support to the Brigade and, in turn, receive protection on the battlefield.

'The FUP proved, on occupation, to be covered in Multi Launch Rocket System bomblets to the extent that the BAA group sustained three wounded and one killed within a short time of arriving in the area. Staff Sergeant Davies's platoon itself had already lost one Landrover and a motorcycle due to this hazard. With the onset of darkness and with rain and cloud making visibility almost nil, Staff Sergeant Davies was ordered by the Brigade Provost Officer to clear safe lanes, to allow the BAA to form up and pass through the FUP. The alternative was clearly the loss of critical logistic vehicles and possibly more lives. He, therefore, personally led his soldiers in clearing the necessary routes of bomblets—in full knowledge of their potential lethality—using issue shovels.

'Despite an explosion early in the proceedings, which fortunately inflicted no injury, Staff Sergeant Davies continued to work against the clock to clear the way for the 600 plus vehicles of the BAA. In due course, the BAA was able to occupy its FUP and proceed up the line of advance with minimum delay. Staff Sergeant Davies continued to recce and lay the route for the BAA through the next 200 kilometres of enemy territory, throughout motivating an increasingly tired and stressed platoon through many battlefield hazards.

'Staff Sergeant Davies's act was one of exemplary personal courage and robust leadership.'

Exemplo Ducemeus :)
Knowing what I do about those weapons, that is exceedingly scary.

He deserved a higher award.
 
Here is his DCM citation from the London Gazette:

'Staff Sergeant Davies commanded 3 Platoon, 203 Provost Company which was under tactical command of HQ 7 Armoured Brigade for Operation Granby. His duties required him to move early through the obstacle breach in wheeled vehicles, alongside the armoured reconnaissance, in order to lay out the Brigade rendezvous line on the far side of the breach, and establish the Forming Up Point (FUP) for the Brigade Administrative Area (BAA). Thereafter, he would be responsible for signing the axis of advance so that the BAA could follow hard up on the Brigade in order to provide logistic support.

'On 25 February 1991, early Allied successes had advanced timings for the Brigade's passage of lines, and the forward elements were already some four hours ahead of the BAA by the time the FUP was reached. Best speed was therefore required if the BAA was to provide close logistic support to the Brigade and, in turn, receive protection on the battlefield.

'The FUP proved, on occupation, to be covered in Multi Launch Rocket System bomblets to the extent that the BAA group sustained three wounded and one killed within a short time of arriving in the area. Staff Sergeant Davies's platoon itself had already lost one Landrover and a motorcycle due to this hazard. With the onset of darkness and with rain and cloud making visibility almost nil, Staff Sergeant Davies was ordered by the Brigade Provost Officer to clear safe lanes, to allow the BAA to form up and pass through the FUP. The alternative was clearly the loss of critical logistic vehicles and possibly more lives. He, therefore, personally led his soldiers in clearing the necessary routes of bomblets—in full knowledge of their potential lethality—using issue shovels.

'Despite an explosion early in the proceedings, which fortunately inflicted no injury, Staff Sergeant Davies continued to work against the clock to clear the way for the 600 plus vehicles of the BAA. In due course, the BAA was able to occupy its FUP and proceed up the line of advance with minimum delay. Staff Sergeant Davies continued to recce and lay the route for the BAA through the next 200 kilometres of enemy territory, throughout motivating an increasingly tired and stressed platoon through many battlefield hazards.


'Staff Sergeant Davies's act was one of exemplary personal courage and robust leadership.'

Exemplo Ducemeus :)
Not to detract from SSgt Davies' bravery, but that sounds like a job for an AVRE.
 
Here is his DCM citation from the London Gazette:

'Staff Sergeant Davies commanded 3 Platoon, 203 Provost Company which was under tactical command of HQ 7 Armoured Brigade for Operation Granby. His duties required him to move early through the obstacle breach in wheeled vehicles, alongside the armoured reconnaissance, in order to lay out the Brigade rendezvous line on the far side of the breach, and establish the Forming Up Point (FUP) for the Brigade Administrative Area (BAA). Thereafter, he would be responsible for signing the axis of advance so that the BAA could follow hard up on the Brigade in order to provide logistic support.

'On 25 February 1991, early Allied successes had advanced timings for the Brigade's passage of lines, and the forward elements were already some four hours ahead of the BAA by the time the FUP was reached. Best speed was therefore required if the BAA was to provide close logistic support to the Brigade and, in turn, receive protection on the battlefield.

'The FUP proved, on occupation, to be covered in Multi Launch Rocket System bomblets to the extent that the BAA group sustained three wounded and one killed within a short time of arriving in the area. Staff Sergeant Davies's platoon itself had already lost one Landrover and a motorcycle due to this hazard. With the onset of darkness and with rain and cloud making visibility almost nil, Staff Sergeant Davies was ordered by the Brigade Provost Officer to clear safe lanes, to allow the BAA to form up and pass through the FUP. The alternative was clearly the loss of critical logistic vehicles and possibly more lives. He, therefore, personally led his soldiers in clearing the necessary routes of bomblets—in full knowledge of their potential lethality—using issue shovels.

'Despite an explosion early in the proceedings, which fortunately inflicted no injury, Staff Sergeant Davies continued to work against the clock to clear the way for the 600 plus vehicles of the BAA. In due course, the BAA was able to occupy its FUP and proceed up the line of advance with minimum delay. Staff Sergeant Davies continued to recce and lay the route for the BAA through the next 200 kilometres of enemy territory, throughout motivating an increasingly tired and stressed platoon through many battlefield hazards.


'Staff Sergeant Davies's act was one of exemplary personal courage and robust leadership.'

Exemplo Ducemeus :)
Ballsy, very very ballsy. And excellent leadership by example.
 

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