UOTC time as part of bounty time

#1
Gents,

I spent two years in the UOTC and then commissioned and am now in my second year as a Pl Comd in a TA Inf unit, this gives me a total of 4 years service, each year of which I have completed my MATTs and annual camp requirement. My Bn paid me a 4 year bounty a week ago or so, and have just phoned me up now saying that I might owe them to the tune of £1000, which having just paid off my credit card and booking a holiday has left me a bit fucked. To be honest I'm feeling a bit snapped with it, this is the third time they've fucked up my pay, and I'm worried that this has happened to some of my blokes too, a few of them came in last week stating they had been paid above or below what they were expecting. What's the score with time served, am I right to think that I have received the correct bounty, my Army no. is a 3003xxxx. Cheers
 
#2
As far as I can tell from your post you have received the correct bounty rate but it is difficult to be 100% sure without knowing your exact details. It may be in your interests to arrange an interview with your RAWO.
 
#3
Yeah have been trying to get in touch with him most of today, it would seem that the clerk in my coy has put in the wrong information at some stage and I have been royally fucked over, I'm trying to get in touch with those of my pl who are in a similar situation and get us all checked, it's ridiculous that they would authorize bounty payments without even bloody checking them and then just think they can get them back retrospectively. She has it in her mind that I was a "Univesity Cadet" rather than an OCdt for my period at UOTC and thus not eligible for transfer of time served, am I right in thinking a University Cadet is one of the Medic or dentist types on a cadetship?
 
#6
this happened to me one year and it was down to the clark putting in my bounty too soon so JPA thought I had got 2 bounties in one year. Don't worry it only took 6 months before it got sorted out.
 
#7
The difficulty here is defining the term and the interpretation of the rules,

JSP 754 states;

Previous Service

"04.0507. Previous full-time service in any of HM Regular Forces, or service in any of the Reserve Forces in which the full training bounty has been earned by the completion of obligatory training , may count towards qualifying service for the higher rates of bounty..."

However, the footnote says
1 - Service as a University Cadet does not count towards full training commitment.
Now, you are correct in saying the term "university cadet" is usually applied to dental/medical types, however JSP 754 also states

University Cadet Bounty

04.0530. Cadets serving in the University RN Reserve Units (URNU), Officer Training Corps (OTC), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve (University Air Squadron) (RAFVR(UAS)) or the Tri-Service Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme (DTUs)...
Which is backed up by;

ANNEX A TO CHAPTER 4 SECTION 5

TYPES OF BOUNTY AVAILABLE TO RESERVE PERSONNEL

University Cadet Bounty


Undergraduate URNU students
Army Group B – Officers, Officer Cadets and soldiers in the OTC
RAF University Air Squadrons
Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme
So, by the looks of things, as I've said previously on the same topic, your Clerk is infact correct alas - UOTC service does not count towards full bounty levels by my reading of the JSP. No I know of many many people that have transferred to units and have continued on whatever level they were at, is this down to a lack of knowledge regarding the JSP or was the JSP defined/updated to reflect this? Who knows.. I also know of just as many people that have had their level reset to level 1 (some even in the same unit as people that haven't)

An interesting side point to note, as of last year all TA commissions are Group A - one of the bonuses played up towards getting a TA Commission whilst at a UOTC was that you would move onto a Full bounty - albeit at level 1 (£400ish etc, so still more than all your mates with their £1980or whatever the UOTC levels are now), so commissioning whilst at UOTC would put you in a much better financial situation were you to move on to a Group A unit afterwards.

The issue is that if someone has moved from a UOTC to a new unit you can easily spot whilst entering the certificate of efficiency/bounty element for example if a Group A Soldier has a Group B bounty element (it will say TRI-UNIVERSITY instead of ARMY - TA GP A REGIONAL or such like) and change it to the correct bounty - not so obvious is the fact you have to change the "reset to bounty year 1" (etc) field to YES to prevent overpayment- unless they have commissioned as Group A as above. Really the losing UOTC (or possibly even MS Reserves on the assignment order?) should notify the gaining Group A unit that they need to adjust this.

How much did you get last year? You should have had a 1st year TA bounty and this year should be your second, I'm guessing last year you also received a full one?
 
#8
Randomly recieved a 1st year bounty instead of a 5th. Sweet, what's £1200 between friends? Heard a variety of excuses the best being, "Yes, but you've done a tour!" my reply being "So fcuking what?!". Hope to hell they don't speak to the lads like that.
 
#9
Randomly recieved a 1st year bounty instead of a 5th. Sweet, what's £1200 between friends? Heard a variety of excuses the best being, "Yes, but you've done a tour!" my reply being "So fcuking what?!". Hope to hell they don't speak to the lads like that.
So now doing a tour means you get less bounty? Maybe you should take a leaf out of some of the mongs in my Regiment and acquire a 46 inch waist and a Minibus license, you'll be rolling in it.
 
#11
From experience, yes time with a UOTC does count as time served towards your group A TA bounty. Your clerk has dropped the ball.
Likewise - my transfer from TA Gp.B to TA Gp.A bounties surprised me in that I went straight on to the "maximum bounty" of the time (in those days, the 3-year bounty). The best advice I got was to defer my final TA Gp. B bounty (validity period based around the academic year, i.e. September to September, rather than April to April) because you couldn't/shouldn't get two bounties within a 12-month period.

My record for "Pay f***up" was eleven months to receive a bounty that had been qualified for, and applied for correctly in the February/March pay run; apparently the pay computer refused to cope with the concept that there were TA Gp.A staff on the strength of a TA Gp.B unit, and the wheels of admin ground slowly. The only saving grace was finally receiving a bounty in March, and then another one in April on time :)

I refuse to listen to any slur on the character of AGC(SPS) and the MoD Civil Service personnel involved that they are an idle and incompetent bunch of oxygen thieves who have delusions of adequacy and would be sacked from a real business, because obviously the concept of "work it out and write a damn cheque" is far too simple an understanding of what is obviously a hideously difficult concept. They knew what the problem was at the eight-month mark (that's when the CO got paid his bounty) but they kept waiting for the monthly pay run to iron out each successive problem while playing admin tennis between unit and Worthy Down; I made it at the third attempt.

PS Having seen a litany of G1 lunacy and incompetence over the years on the part of HM Armed Forces back-office systems, I defy anyone to claim that "the Army really takes care of its staff". It doesn't, and anyone who claims that it approaches best-in-class is delusional.
See: Army Housing, Quality of. Army Housing, Mean Time to Repair. Army Housing, Availability of on short-notice posting. Army Postings, notice of. Army Families, Educational provision of. etc, etc.

PPS And breathe. Not a bad rant after only two beers.
 
#13
When I transferred over from the UOTC to the TA and enquired if previous UOTC service counted towards bounty I was told to go whistle, when I pressed the matter I was fobbed off with 'we've referred it to the AGC' five years on I'm still waiting for a reply.
 
#14
Well, here's your reply after five years - No it does not officially as per the JSP.


However, as per several examples in this tread - for most people it does! Now in these times of moral courage and what not, I'd expect everyone that has incorrectly received the full rate on transfer to make themselves known to JPAC for an immediate beating.

Gravel;
My record for "Pay f***up" was eleven months to receive a bounty that had been qualified for, and applied for correctly in the February/March pay run; apparently the pay computer refused to cope with the concept that there were TA Gp.A staff on the strength of a TA Gp.B unit, and the wheels of admin ground slowly. The only saving grace was finally receiving a bounty in March, and then another one in April on time
You may be amazed to find out that that is infact total balls! JPA cannot/does not distinguish between Group A staff at a Group B unit - it is entirely possibly (if unit HR were infact asleep) for every single OCdt to be paid a Group A bounty for example. It was more likely it was personal error somewhere in the chain.
 
#15
You may be amazed to find out that that is infact total balls!
You may be amazed to find out that when GB made that transfer people were still being paid in groats ;)

msr
 
#16
Well, here's your reply after five years - No it does not officially as per the JSP.


However, as per several examples in this tread - for most people it does! Now in these times of moral courage and what not, I'd expect everyone that has incorrectly received the full rate on transfer to make themselves known to JPAC for an immediate beating.
JSP754 said:
ANNEX A TO CHAPTER 4 SECTION 5

TYPES OF BOUNTY AVAILABLE TO RESERVE PERSONNEL

University Cadet Bounty


Undergraduate URNU students
Army Group B – Officers, Officer Cadets and soldiers in the OTC
Reading that JSP it seems out of date; I am sure that UOTC officers became group A in the middle of last year. In fact I believe all subbies coming out of TACC last september (2010) were given group A status regardless of whether they were going TA or OTC.
 
#17
Yep they certainly were, you are correct that it is slightly out of date..Shotgun not dropping them an email informing them though!


msr, I did think it was pre-JPA but then I thought well I know group A people in a Group B unit in those dark unicom times that received Group A bounties :> I'm sure it was still just a cock up
 
#18
However, as per several examples in this tread - for most people it does! Now in these times of moral courage and what not, I'd expect everyone that has incorrectly received the full rate on transfer to make themselves known to JPAC for an immediate beating.
Should come to £300 all told ;) (in those days, you topped out at a 3-yr Gp.A bounty of £300, vice a 3-yr Gp.B bounty of about £60. Compare it with the "prize for top score at MTQ2" of £100... (which sounds good until you find 100+ people on the cadre from five universities)

I'll trade it off against the bounty I never got while I was posted to the local Div HQ for a year. Did the MTDs and the tests, assumed I hadn't qualified, was told later that there was a paragraph in TA Regs about Staff Officers at regular HQs not needing the 15 continuous days, unit did nowt after asking, I wrote it off to experience and a case of "what goes around, comes around". I wasn't doing it for the cash, after all (heresy, I know).

You may be amazed to find out that that is infact total balls! JPA cannot/does not distinguish between Group A staff at a Group B unit - it is entirely possibly (if unit HR were infact asleep) for every single OCdt to be paid a Group A bounty for example. It was more likely it was personal error somewhere in the chain.
MSR is spot on - I'm a past-it-all STAB who started in the mid-80s and finished just before JPA turned up. It was 2001ish, it didn't happen the year before or the year after (with the same personnel at our end). Either our Chief Clerk (who I trusted) was telling porkies, or someone was lying to him. Computer says no...
 
#19
I got a Tri Univerity Level 3 bounty to the tune of £205 this year after transferring from the UOTC 2 bounty years ago and getting the correct bounty last year. So in a side note, Gp A service does in fact count towards your UOTC bounty in case anyone was wondering if it worked the other way!
 
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