Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by EX_STAB, Sep 5, 2007.
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would this plane not go around in big circles?
Nice one! thanks for the link.
Just be thankfull that these guys wasted so much time on experimental work that they never got the jets ready in time to become an effective weapon,though Adolf himself put the biggest boot in.
A mate in school was absolutely obsessed with the Luftwaffe and knew as a twelve year old all the different models and modifications,always wondered if he turned his hobby into a career.
Wot designing aircraft for the NAZIS, I doubt it as they lost in 45 dont ya know ?
Glad it's of interest to some of you. I thought it would be. Amazing really how much effort the Germans wasted on experimental types generally, not just aircraft. They also continued to produce obsolete aircraft to the end of the war. Why they persisted with the BF109 when they could have put more effort into the vastly superior FW190 remains a mystery to me.
They did much the same with tanks.
He probably went and joined their Paraguay branch.
As a small pedantic note, the BF109 was not inferior to the FW190. Just finished reading a gunner's memoirs from B17's in WW2 (Combat Crew), in it he repeatedly states that the best German interceptor was the 109G.
Take into account production times, and facility's which haven't been reduced to rubble....
That clicking sound you hear is me winding my neck in!
With respect, is it not possible that he was wrong? Even the final models of Bf 109 weren't anywhere near the standard of the Fw190's from what I've read on the subject although I claim no particular expertise.
I recall that, strategically, the FW190 was less costly in materials and engineering than the Bf109 too. (But again I may be wrong)
RustyH, most historians, and certainly pilots from the period would disagree. The Gustav was almost as far as it could be developed, and needed a skilled pilot to get the best out of it (which the Luftwaffe were lacking by 1943, when the USAAF day campaign got going) and didnt have the performance of the 190. It lacked the armament (unless carrying underwing cannon, which robbed it's speed) and was, by all accounts, problematic to handle - the weight had grown to the point where it had to kept at full throttle even in the landing pattern, and there was the saying about the two kinds of 109 pilot - those who had ground looped one, and those who were going to.
was it the Me109 which had a major problem with ground accidents due to the narrow undercarriage,a very large proportion being lost in that manner?
I recall (not from personal experience!) the Fw190 was more reliable and easier to maintain as well as safer.
yep, hence the saying about the two types of 109 pilot. they had a very narrow undercarriage track as the gear legs were mounted on the fuselage, which made the overall construction as light as possible, and made transport easy, but made ground handling a challenge.
I remember reading somewhere that a Luftwaffe pilot described the later variant 109s as being like a 'raddled old woman with too much makeup' after all the mods and bolt-ons required to make what was a good but old (and critically undersized) airframe survivable. Also mentioned was the fact that there was not an inch of space left under the skin which accounted for the bulges required to cover the cannon breeches.
You need to read 'Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy' which I have just finished, a very interesting read, very well written and researched.
To be very brief, the Jerries never had enough coal or steel to meet their planned targets for new types of weapons or even old ones, because resources would be pulled away at random to meet sudden emergancies or fads ie ammo, panzers, u boats, ammo, trains, atlantikwall etc. long term planning was all over the place. In fact they never had more than 8 months reserves of steel or coal and often much less. Industry fought all the time to get steel to meet orders often nicking it when a rival was being unproductive ie. building a new factory to make say FW190's but not actually making any fighters that month. It was easier for industry to keep churning out ME109's on established production lines, and to be able to say they were making fighters even if they were no good. Being seen to be busy.
At the same time their design labs would always be knocking up new shiney prototypes hopefully to catch Adolfs eye and win a huge order, allowing a larger steel quota hopefully ringfenced by Adolfs approval. Until a new fad/emergancy happened.
Not very rational but there you go.
Look out for the book its well worth it, it has superb assesments concerning the pivotal role of the Strategic Air War that will really open your eyes. All of the recent 'bombing is a War crime and did nothing' opinion is throughly debunked.
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