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Unlikely and backdoor procurements - China et al

Yokel

LE
Mostly this has been about non Western nations getting hold of sensitive technologies. Trying to export underwater equipment to Russia will attract Governnent interest, for example. During the Cold War many NATO weapons were copied by the Soviet Bloc. Am I right in thinking that they copied the MILAN missile?

There are few examples of the West using similar means. On the thread about keeping control of important technologies, @terminal states that during the Cold War, Canada had to source replacement parts for naval radars from Czechoslovakia. How on Earth did they do that? What did they say they were for?
 
The MIG-15 was the dominant fighter over Korea until the introduction of the American F-86 Sabre. The Sabre was more than a match for the new MiG, garnering a 10-to-1 combat victory ratio in the war. It was also the plane flown by all 39 United Nations fighter aces.
The Mig was so much better than the F-86; it could outclimb and outdive it with ease, was lighter, could turn inside the F-86 and in the hands of Russian WW II veterans, easily bested the early F86 until they changed the wings of the F-86 to a slatted version. Americans knocked down Chinese and NK pilots easily enough, when the Russians went home. The Russians only attacked F86s when it suited them as they were always higher than the F-86s. What the Yanks conveniently fail to mention is the number of F86s damaged by the MiGs' cannon,that were too badly damaged to fight again and were shipped home or to Japan to be rebuilt. Those aircraft were not considered as total losses so they were rebuilt as E models and flew again. The actual loss figures are closer than you think.
 
I worked for a well-known American industrial gas turbine company and they, like many others, were banned from selling to Iran or Libya (Gaddafi). Hundreds of their turbines were already in active use in those countries and they didnt want to lose the revenue so an Italian subsidiary was despatched to deal with them, as they were already established in Libya and all that was changed, allegedly, was the lettering on the crates. No mention of San Diego or Dallas on the boxes. It was an open secret among the field staff, of course. The thing was, the plating technology for the blades on the turbine's discs, was alleged to be a state secret and not for export,yet here it was, on the supposed enemies' turbines...
 
I worked for a well-known American industrial gas turbine company and they, like many others, were banned from selling to Iran or Libya (Gaddafi). Hundreds of their turbines were already in active use in those countries and they didnt want to lose the revenue so an Italian subsidiary was despatched to deal with them, as they were already established in Libya and all that was changed, allegedly, was the lettering on the crates. No mention of San Diego or Dallas on the boxes. It was an open secret among the field staff, of course. The thing was, the plating technology for the blades on the turbine's discs, was alleged to be a state secret and not for export,yet here it was, on the supposed enemies' turbines...

Sanctions busting in Rhodesia. When we went back to the UK . My old mum used to work for the Rhodesian post office. As everyone seemed to know everyone else. As we were going back and needed some very costly crates to move the belongings , one of the the PO engineers said we could have the crates that the “new” Post Office exchanges came in.

Said crates were delivered to our house. Next day he rocked up with some black paint. Seems he wanted to paint over the lettering on the crates as the Germans might be a bit pissed off if the U.K. found out about what had been sold.
 
Mostly this has been about non Western nations getting hold of sensitive technologies. Trying to export underwater equipment to Russia will attract Governnent interest, for example. During the Cold War many NATO weapons were copied by the Soviet Bloc. Am I right in thinking that they copied the MILAN missile?

There are few examples of the West using similar means. On the thread about keeping control of important technologies, @terminal states that during the Cold War, Canada had to source replacement parts for naval radars from Czechoslovakia. How on Earth did they do that? What did they say they were for?
I've answered the question on the thread where the conversation started. In short, the Czechs made certain radio frequency components which Western suppliers no longer supported. If you wanted the parts, you simply paid them the money and they would sell them to you. I don't have the details, but I imagine they were simply bought through a distributor.
 
I worked for a well-known American industrial gas turbine company and they, like many others, were banned from selling to Iran or Libya (Gaddafi). Hundreds of their turbines were already in active use in those countries and they didnt want to lose the revenue so an Italian subsidiary was despatched to deal with them, as they were already established in Libya and all that was changed, allegedly, was the lettering on the crates. No mention of San Diego or Dallas on the boxes. It was an open secret among the field staff, of course. The thing was, the plating technology for the blades on the turbine's discs, was alleged to be a state secret and not for export,yet here it was, on the supposed enemies' turbines...
UK subsidiaries used a lot in circumventing US trade embargoes...apparently....

UK small engineering firms sold a lot of knock off F5 parts to Iran...apparently....
 

Yokel

LE
I worked for a well-known American industrial gas turbine company and they, like many others, were banned from selling to Iran or Libya (Gaddafi). Hundreds of their turbines were already in active use in those countries and they didnt want to lose the revenue so an Italian subsidiary was despatched to deal with them, as they were already established in Libya and all that was changed, allegedly, was the lettering on the crates. No mention of San Diego or Dallas on the boxes. It was an open secret among the field staff, of course. The thing was, the plating technology for the blades on the turbine's discs, was alleged to be a state secret and not for export,yet here it was, on the supposed enemies' turbines...

Not good. In the seventies Argentina decided to equip its navy with frigates powered by Rolls Royce gas turbines. After the invasion of the Falklands in April 1982, the UK put in place an embargo that still stands. The Argebtines tried to get things made by front companies, but with little luck.

UK subsidiaries used a lot in circumventing US trade embargoes...apparently....

UK small engineering firms sold a lot of knock off F5 parts to Iran...apparently....

Was this before American and Iranian forces traded shots?

I started this thread with the rather bizarre take of Chinese businessman buying an ex Sivuet aircraft carrier to use as a floating hotel and casino, only for the PLA Navy to put her back into service as a carrier. There must be equally bizarre stories of things being acquired for unusual and innocent sounding purposes.

Did someone try to buy an old submarine for use as a nightclub - or have I imagined that?
 

Yokel

LE
ITAR rules really ought to prevent that.

I suspect modern ITAR rules, and our own restrictions on exports of military oriented equipment and dual use goods (lots of things need export licences - which means Government scrutiny) are a consequence of the way technology ended up in Saddam's hands.

Also Iranian and Chinese ones.
 

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