University tuition fees.

#1
After the protests the introduction of tuition fees has had a surprising effect.

Universities are getting the first evidence of how the hike in university tuition fees is likely to affect student numbers and it is not quite what they were expecting.
"What we have seen is that the numbers of students attending pre-application open days is significantly up on what it has been in previous years," said Professor Paul White, pro-vice-chancellor at Sheffield University.
"We all expected that the levels might well drop because of tuition fees.
"Our first open day had 30% more attendees this year, so we have seen an impact but it's in the opposite direction than we might have thought."
Flight to quality
Prof White had anticipated the September open days would bring questions about tuition fees. He had decided to field all those questions himself, but he has not had a single question on the subject.
Instead parents and even grandparents were taking a more detailed note of what exactly was on offer for the money.
Continue reading the main story Find out more

A Student Voice is on BBC Radio 4, Sunday 2 October at 13:39 BST
"Parents have been turning up in increasing numbers and they want to know about the actual experience of the teaching, what goes on in the seminars and lectures, and what you get from it."
From here-

BBC News - Demand for top university places 'may be higher'

I guess people are taking much more interest in what they get for their money now.
 
#3
I know despite the fee increases and no longer running a clearing scheme my university is more oversubscribed than ever to the point where the university is putting bunk beds into single rooms and having to rent B&B's and all the private accomidation is bokked and over priced as freshers want to start under the old fee's scheme rather than next years one.
To me it was pretty obvious that dspite the fee increase nothing was going to change as more people go to university every year thats why i had no intreast in those riots and protests as it was obvious they wouldn't make a differance plus the student loan system is very biased you might even say racist at its core as English students have to bear the majority of the costs while the scots and welsh pay considerably less, although its a loan i look at it this way i will leaveuni after this year with £18k's worth of debt while a scottish student will have only £9k debt so that puts them in a better position financially when it comes to cost of living and debts just for being born in a diffrent part of the UK, yet you never see anyone protesting against this.
 
#4
Funny how students will moan about such fees yet these ungrateful bastards get more discounts everynight of the week in a pub/bar than a real working person does ..


If that ain't discrimination I don't know what is
 
#5
I don't think anywhere does cheap drinks now bar tesco with a student discount my local charges £2.40 for a pint of foster or 2.60 without and the freshers week friday thing i'm going to tonight looks like they want £1.50 on bottles which isnt bad but isn't good either but as long as the freshers are hot and so innocent of uni life you cant complain, and the uni are doing a foam party tommorow night where else would you see eye candy in a bikini at 11pm at the end of september.
 
#6
A 30% increase could easily account for numerically a small fluctuation. The difference between 10 and 13, or 100 and 130 attendees. It's not necessarily the sort of thing to draw conclusions from.

I strongly doubt applications will decline or that places will go unfilled. There'll always be somebody who wants "the student experience" no matter what the cost or whether or not they will actually benefit.
 
#7
I know despite the fee increases and no longer running a clearing scheme my university is more oversubscribed than ever to the point where the university is putting bunk beds into single rooms and having to rent B&B's and all the private accomidation is bokked and over priced as freshers want to start under the old fee's scheme rather than next years one.
To me it was pretty obvious that dspite the fee increase nothing was going to change as more people go to university every year thats why i had no intreast in those riots and protests as it was obvious they wouldn't make a differance plus the student loan system is very biased you might even say racist at its core as English students have to bear the majority of the costs while the scots and welsh pay considerably less, although its a loan i look at it this way i will leaveuni after this year with £18k's worth of debt while a scottish student will have only £9k debt so that puts them in a better position financially when it comes to cost of living and debts just for being born in a diffrent part of the UK, yet you never see anyone protesting against this.

wHERE is it written that you have a God given right to a free education ? I have just completed an Honours degree at the ripe old age 0f 50 , paid for out of my own pocket and had to work a full time job at the same time. I do hope you are not going to Uni to study English BTW "diffrent " "scots and welsh " "accomidation is bokked " "differance" "intreast" ;)
 
#8
Let's hope this trend coninues down the qual ladder until we have parents asking teachers 'WTF is actually being taught in this class and what is the fcuking benefit?' at the local Comp.
 
#9
I know despite the fee increases and no longer running a clearing scheme my university is more oversubscribed than ever to the point where the university is putting bunk beds into single rooms and having to rent B&B's and all the private accomidation is bokked and over priced as freshers want to start under the old fee's scheme rather than next years one.
To me it was pretty obvious that dspite the fee increase nothing was going to change as more people go to university every year thats why i had no intreast in those riots and protests as it was obvious they wouldn't make a differance plus the student loan system is very biased you might even say racist at its core as English students have to bear the majority of the costs while the scots and welsh pay considerably less, although its a loan i look at it this way i will leaveuni after this year with £18k's worth of debt while a scottish student will have only £9k debt so that puts them in a better position financially when it comes to cost of living and debts just for being born in a diffrent part of the UK, yet you never see anyone protesting against this.
Not this bollocks again.

Let me simplify this for you. Each country gets a pot of money to do with as they wish according to the wish of their electorate. Us, of the ginger haired persuasion chose fat Mr Salmond as he offered free education. Our bean eating cousins south of the wall chose a better NHS and a reasonably linked up transport system (In the south at least).

Should you wish to come and live here, you too can receive free University education, however should a Scot wish to attend a University in England he/she would be charged the full fee.

To complicate things we also allow EU students to attend for free. That's because unlike England, most of Europe has chosen to sign up to a scheme where we all accept each others students.
Technically, University education in Scotland is not free, if you wish your fees paid for you apply to the Student Awards Agency Scotland (SAAS) and they provide the means.
Education authorities in England do not allow English students to apply to this scheme, unlike the rest of Europe. Whos fault is that?
 
#10
To complicate things we also allow EU students to attend for free. That's because unlike England, most of Europe has chosen to sign up to a scheme where we all accept each others students.
Technically, University education in Scotland is not free, if you wish your fees paid for you apply to the Student Awards Agency Scotland (SAAS) and they provide the means.
Education authorities in England do not allow English students to apply to this scheme, unlike the rest of Europe. Whos fault is that?
This is legally incorrect.

An EU Directive was issued which means that the fee rate you charge your 'home' students must also be made available to the students of all other EU member states.

Because Scotland charges its own students nothing all other EU member states' students can study there for free. Because England, Wales and Northern Ireland are not separate EU member states, but simply devolved regions of the United Kingdom, this law does not apply to the relationship between the constituent members of the Union.

Similarly, English Universities must charge all other EU member states £9k and make tuition fee loans (funded by the British Treasury) available to them.

Theoretically, England could charge more than £9k to Scotland/Wales/NI students.

This also means English students can study in - for instance - Malta or Belgium for free. Most degrees are taught in English.

The reasons for the £9k tuition fee have got absolutely nothing to do with the "students should pay for themselves" argument. This gives the government far too much credit. It is a typical Brown-ite accounting con which has driven the policy.
 
#11
This is legally incorrect.

An EU Directive was issued which means that the fee rate you charge your 'home' students must also be made available to the students of all other EU member states.

Because Scotland charges its own students nothing all other EU member states' students can study there for free. Because England, Wales and Northern Ireland are not separate EU member states, but simply devolved regions of the United Kingdom, this law does not apply to the relationship between the constituent members of the Union.

Similarly, English Universities must charge all other EU member states £9k and make tuition fee loans (funded by the British Treasury) available to them.

Theoretically, England could charge more than £9k to Scotland/Wales/NI students.

This also means English students can study in - for instance - Malta or Belgium for free. Most degrees are taught in English.

The reasons for the £9k tuition fee have got absolutely nothing to do with the "students should pay for themselves" argument. This gives the government far too much credit. It is a typical Brown-ite accounting con which has driven the policy.
Since when has England been a 'devolved' member of the U.K...it's the 'Porridge Wogs'(I am one) that chose that path..
 
#12
where did i say it was my right to a free education? all i implied is that if the goverment is going to control the fees that can be charged then they should be universal and apply to everyone within that system. i Don't think a free uni education would be right for the UK not unless their was a screening process with interviews and exams as it would be a waste of resources and time of those who'd drift in and out not unlike some cources offered at post 16 at the moment.
If you can cover the cost of your own education thats great i have friends who don't have a loan as their parents are covering the cost of their studies, however my parents and i would struggle to come up with 6k a year and thats why the loan is great for me as hopefully i'll come away with a degree and good job prospects that will allow me to pay the loan back and moan about tax for the rest of my life.

Fatboy i havn't read much about how you apply for the cash north of the wall but i should imagine the fault lies with the fact that their is no seperate body that the english can vote for like the welsh assembly and scottish parliment who can fight for such things and have their own budget. plus i think the health cares better where you are with free prescriptions and retirment homes we just get dodgy drugs and hospitals.

No im not an english student but this is an internet forum not an essay so expect fat fingers and bad spellings just as i didn't check my post look at the use capitals in your first word but its the internet it realy dosn't matter.
 
#13
Since when has England been a 'devolved' member of the U.K...it's the 'Porridge Wogs'(I am one) that chose that path..
Well technically it is. Although we still have the absurd situation whereby Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can vote upon issues which do not affect their own constituents.

A bit like the European Union in that regard.
 
#14
A 30% increase could easily account for numerically a small fluctuation. The difference between 10 and 13, or 100 and 130 attendees. It's not necessarily the sort of thing to draw conclusions from.

I strongly doubt applications will decline or that places will go unfilled. There'll always be somebody who wants "the student experience" no matter what the cost or whether or not they will actually benefit.
I was thinking the comments about students and their families asking far more searching questions was the more interesting bit, not the number of applicants.
 
#15
Fewer Universities.
Re-Open/name the Techical Colleges
Harder secondary education quals to get into uni.
Accept that in life someone has to come first and others will not.
 
#16
This is legally incorrect.
It is legally entirely correct, as I seem to constantly have to point out on here. The funding available from the Student Awards Agency Scotland is avilable to all nationals of EU member states and regions which are fully-participating members under the conditions of the European Higher Education Area. This means that their students can apply for funding in Scotland and SAAS claim it back from the parent nation/region.

England chose to opt out of full participation in the EHEA and restrict its students to applying to their home LEA for funding which means SAAS can't claim it back. Similarly, a Scots, Spanish or Italian student could apply to the Sorbonne and be able to access local funding on the same basis as a French student which is subsequently claimed back from their national or regional education funding authority whereas an English student couldn't because of the short-sighted and insular decisions taken in England.

Well technically it is. Although we still have the absurd situation whereby Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can vote upon issues which do not affect their own constituents.

A bit like the European Union in that regard.
English MPs can still vote on changes to Scots Law in any matter that comes before Parliament, just as they have done for 300-odd years. Unless you want to argue that their English constituencies are governed by Scots Law, it's a bit hypocritical to run about shouting 'unfair' all of a sudden.
 
#17
It is legally entirely correct, as I seem to constantly have to point out on here. The funding available from the Student Awards Agency Scotland is avilable to all nationals of EU member states and regions which are fully-participating members under the conditions of the European Higher Education Area. This means that their students can apply for funding in Scotland and SAAS claim it back from the parent nation/region.

England chose to opt out of full participation in the EHEA and restrict its students to applying to their home LEA for funding which means SAAS can't claim it back. Similarly, a Scots, Spanish or Italian student could apply to the Sorbonne and be able to access local funding on the same basis as a French student which is subsequently claimed back from their national or regional education funding authority whereas an English student couldn't because of the short-sighted and insular decisions taken in England.
That isn't true. All EU member states can send students to English Universities and have access to English tuition fees.

Similarly I as an English student can study at any other EU member state's Universities and have access to the funding system in place there.

The reason English/Welsh/NI students must pay fees at Scottish Universities is precisely for the reasons I outlined - they do not constitute separate EU member states and so relations between them are not subject to the European Directive which mandates, as I have said previously, that students from other EU member states pay the same as 'home' students.

English MPs can still vote on changes to Scots Law in any matter that comes before Parliament, just as they have done for 300-odd years. Unless you want to argue that their English constituencies are governed by Scots Law, it's a bit hypocritical to run about shouting 'unfair' all of a sudden.
The difference is that the Scottish still have MPs in Westminister. So English MPs voting on something that affects Scotland is rather more equitable.

Scots MPs can vote upon English laws which have no effect upon their constituents. There are no English MSPs and therefore there is no recriprocity.
 

Sixty

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#18
Scots MPs can vote upon English laws which have no effect upon their constituents. There are no English MSPs and therefore there is no recriprocity.
Doubtless you were equally vociferous in your condemnation of English MPs voting through the Poll Tax in Scotland while it didn't affect their constituents.

I applaud your commitment to fairness. You're an inspiration.
 

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