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Universities lowering grade requirements for non-EU students

#2
Can't say I'm surprised, the USA has been doing it for years for minorities - though they don't usually have to pay - including our President. Generally though Asian students who come over to attend university are bloody good.
 
#3
Can't say I'm surprised, the USA has been doing it for years for minorities - though they don't usually have to pay - including our President. Generally though Asian students who come over to attend university are bloody good.
My experience of undergraduate study was that for 90% of the academic year, virtually all of the students in the library were foreign students. British students are only interested in being studious around examination periods.
 
S

Screw_The_Nut

Guest
#6
Well they do pay less tuition fees, simples.

edited to add: we are still living in a free market capitalist economy last time I checked.
 
#7
Well they do pay less tuition fees, simples.

edited to add: we are still living in a free market capitalist economy last time I checked.
Do you not think there are any ethical implications that those with money are able to purchase their way out of academic requirements in order to access the best Universities? Whereas those without must win a place by honest competition?
 
S

Screw_The_Nut

Guest
#9
No, but the universities are after cash, so will prefer foreign students who pay more. And on occasion they probably will lower the standards for foreigners to come in. Anyway, qualifications/syllabus' in the UK are complicated enough, imagine trying to translate that into their chinese/american/brazilian equivalents?
 
#10
No, but the universities are after cash, so will prefer foreign students who pay more. And on occasion they probably will lower the standards for foreigners to come in. Anyway, qualifications/syllabus' in the UK are complicated enough, imagine trying to translate that into their chinese/american/brazilian equivalents?
The more reputable ones manage it perfectly well. I note Universities are up in arms now because of the simple requirement imposed by government that a prospective student can actually speak the language when they turn up on British soil.
 
#11
No, but the universities are after cash, so will prefer foreign students who pay more. And on occasion they probably will lower the standards for foreigners to come in. Anyway, qualifications/syllabus' in the UK are complicated enough, imagine trying to translate that into their chinese/american/brazilian equivalents?
Universities which have selected and maintained the appropriate aim tend not to have a problem because they're choosing their candidates on the basis of how likely they are to succeed as a matter of course anyway.

The problem has always been twofold: 'universities' that can't support themselves and their extravagant ambitions on ordinary income and who scramble for international student fees as a handy money-tap to make the nasty reality go away; and the difficulty in accruing a large enough body of knowledge on education systems around the globe to be able to assess accurately a student's chances of succeeding.

This last one's a full time job - mine!

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
 
#12
This last one's a full time job - mine!
My missus used to work in this at a plate glass university. She said fraudulent language qualifications for international students were rife but the University looked the other way because they were desperate for the income. Virtually all drop outs were international students who couldn't speak the language.
 
#13
There's another, far tastier scandal brewing with the 'partnerships' between universities and these companies like INTO that provide education for foreign students with sub-acceptance standards. The quals they offer are supposedly transferrable but there is huge pressure for them to sign up to the 'partner' institution regardless of what is good for the students. I very strongly suspect that they have a financial incentive but have never been able to get confirmation.

Mercenary, visionless, amoral little Philistines have turned UK universities into money-grasping businesses that have little to do with education any more.
 
#14
The more reputable ones manage it perfectly well. I note Universities are up in arms now because of the simple requirement imposed by government that a prospective student can actually speak the language when they turn up on British soil.
It always beggared belief that institutions were never able to get this one right. Of all the credentials that need to be assessed, language ability is the easiest to verify and authenticate.

Of course, with an entire growth industry having sprung up around bollocks ELT provision, there were substantial financial incentives to partnering up with language schools on a "if we say they're good enough, you'll believe us" basis.

One thing that was got right under the new regime was a restriction on the qualifications that could be accepted as proof of English proficiency, although I'd love to know why Hong Kong and Singapore A Levels weren't included. They speak better English than most British applicants!

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
 
#15
Universities which have selected and maintained the appropriate aim tend not to have a problem because they're choosing their candidates on the basis of how likely they are to succeed as a matter of course anyway.
Or monkeying with the classifications to move everyone a notch up. And allowing students to advance to the next year despite having failed three modules out of four.
 
#17
My missus used to work in this at a plate glass university. She said fraudulent language qualifications for international students were rife but the University looked the other way because they were desperate for the income. Virtually all drop outs were international students who couldn't speak the language.
Fraudulent language qualifications are unbelievably easy to pick up if you accept reliable tests or know the signs to look for. Like I said, all it takes is experience, a little common dog - oh, and those most unfashionable of things, standards. Edited to add: language proficiency is also a very convenient excuse for student failure when the reality may very well have been a failure in the admissions process to accurately assess the equivalence of their qualifications. They could very easily just not have been up to the standard from the get-go.

The trouble in most of the culprit institutions I know of or have friends in is that the decision-making is in the hands of those who run the finances and not those who teach the students. I have seen an organisational chart placing international student recruitment and admissions under the control of the finance directorate on the grounds that it was a 'revenue-generating function'.

Those places which have always taken these things seriously are being collectively punished for the sins of the trash and it's hurting our ability to compete on the world stage.

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
 
#18
Or monkeying with the classifications to move everyone a notch up. And allowing students to advance to the next year despite having failed three modules out of four.
Truth will out and producing trained chimps instead of graduates will come back to haunt the places that do it.

Nowhere near quickly enough, though.

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
 
#19
unless we increase tuition fees or the gov decide to increase spending on higher education i dont really see how you can stop this. you could argue that more places are available to students from this country because of the money universities make of foreign students.

either way, i've got my degree, so **** them all.
 
#20
There's another, far tastier scandal brewing with the 'partnerships' between universities and these companies like INTO that provide education for foreign students with sub-acceptance standards. The quals they offer are supposedly transferrable but there is huge pressure for them to sign up to the 'partner' institution regardless of what is good for the students. I very strongly suspect that they have a financial incentive but have never been able to get confirmation.

Mercenary, visionless, amoral little Philistines have turned UK universities into money-grasping businesses that have little to do with education any more.
Apologies for not addressing this earlier. I was on my phone and thought this deserved a better response than I could give at the time.

I would agree with you on the generality but there's an aspect of the specific that I think you have wrong. These places exist to provide agreed progression routes with UK universities. INTO, Kaplan and FoundationCampus are the three largest contractors in the UK and they all follow the same model - preparation centres placed on the campus of the university with whom the partnership is agreed, with Foundation/pre-Masters programmes designed 'in consultation with' the academic staff and specific entry requirements agreed before the students can get into the university proper. In that respect, there's no 'huge pressure' to sign up to the university concerned, since that was the agreement the students entered into in the first place.

The problem is that the agreements are generally couched in terms that leave assessment entirely in the hands of the company rather than the university and they are financially rewarded by contract for each student who progresses as opposed to graduates. It essentially boils down to a gentleman's agreement that, "we'll pretend they're up to snuff and you'll pretend to believe us". The companies are extremely fierce in defence of their prerogatives and having had a chance to audit one partner institution's admissions offices as part of an exchange agreement I'm unconvinced that there's any ability to scrutinise their end product at the progression stage, nor any real will to challenge them on it. They can use blackmail along the lines of, "We can provide X full-fee paying students, do you really want that to end?" and where the university cares more about income than output the response is predictable.

Your final sentence is bang on the money. They and the universities concerned are shysters, unconcerned with the long-term health of the sector. People come to the UK to study because of the reputation of the UK education sector yet increasingly these places draw a link between money paid and qualifications obtained. The marketing should be "Come to the UK and get educated: it'll cost £X thousands and the qualification you obtain is down to your effort and ability" and not "come to the UK and get a degree for X thousands" It angers me that the latter is more prevalent. It angers me more that it may be more accurate, where these utter ********* are concerned.
 

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