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Universal free school meals

You are part of an organisation that treats grown men (and women) like children. And the more you treat them like children the more they will act like children.
In the wider society if people constantly have the state help them, then they constantly expect the state to help them.
I disagree. The two can be mutually exclusive. You can inculcate a sense of individual responsibility whilst "treating people like children" [sic]. And given the lack of example for individual responsibility, maybe it's not necessarily a bad thing?
 
Annual 'non-uniform purge' day?

Or interschool competition based on the hunger games.

The more 'demerits' a child has the greater the chance of winning the 'draw'.

Or just select a class at random and ship them off to an island, battle-royale stylee.

Noooo.

Short, sharp shock, with casualties away and blood mopped up, all by 1st period.

After all, we're not animals . . .
 
My school was ‘twinned’ with a village school in Africa via a local couple who had been working with them for years. Through fundraising activities, (Like after school baking competitions) a library was built in the school and stocked, no one got a Mercedes, and kids on both sides learned about each other’s culture. Kids from some of the most deprived communities in the area got a look at real poverty and hardship, and realised that their lives actually weren’t as shït as they thought. This is known as a ‘Good Learning Outcome’...
To really make the most of the outcome the naughtiest kid in UK could be shipped out for a year in Africa.
 
My school was ‘twinned’ with a village school in Africa via a local couple who had been working with them for years. Through fundraising activities, (Like after school baking competitions) a library was built in the school and stocked, no one got a Mercedes, and kids on both sides learned about each other’s culture. Kids from some of the most deprived communities in the area got a look at real poverty and hardship, and realised that their lives actually weren’t as shït as they thought. This is known as a ‘Good Learning Outcome’...
I heard the most borrowed books were on European Geography and the English Channel Tidal Systems...thats where the rot started!
 
I disagree. The two can be mutually exclusive. You can inculcate a sense of individual responsibility whilst "treating people like children" [sic]. And given the lack of example for individual responsibility, maybe it's not necessarily a bad thing?
If you make most people take responsibility then they will learn to do it themselves, if you constantly nanny them, they will always expect someone else to do it for them. That's the military or civvie street.
 
If you make most people take responsibility then they will learn to do it themselves, if you constantly nanny them, they will always expect someone else to do it for them. That's the military or civvie street.
I guess that's the difference between teaching responsibility and nannying. Whether its parents, schools or wider society, the principle is the same. The issue with the UK is a complete lack of appetite to teach and enforce personal responsibility due to victimhood and rights of an individual. an example may be autism / ASD issues in kids now compared to when we were kids - otherwise known as general naughtiness (not detracting from those with severe/genuine conditions).

There may just be a connection between general family breakdown and ASD rates? 40 years ago it was somewhat shameful for a man to leave his family, or for a young girl to get knocked up. Now any public figures: teachers, MPs, doctors, local leaders would get strung up if they suggested such a thing.

I guess we're arguing the same point - by nannying dysfunctional families it encourages them.
 
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I guess that's the difference between teaching responsibility and nannying. Whether its parents, schools or wider society, the principle is the same. The issue with the UK is a complete lack of appetite to teach and enforce personal responsibility due to victimhood and rights of an individual. an example may be autism / ASD issues in kids now compared to when we were kids - otherwise known as general naughtiness (not detracting from those with severe/genuine conditions).

There may just be a connection between general family breakdown and ASD rates? 40 years ago it was somewhat shameful for a man to leave his family, or for a young girl to get knocked up. Now any public figures: teachers, MPs, doctors, local leaders would get strung up if they suggested such a thing.

I guess we're arguing the same point - by nannying dysfunctional families it encourages them.

I think the point is neither the Army or the state teaches much responsibility. I mention the Army because its a good example of what soldiers regard as normal life when in reality its having someone control the most basic of functions.
If you tell a civvie its the governments job to look after their kids after a while they expect it.

I think families broke down years ago, the difference was no one really gave a toss, now its an outrage and twitter/facebook will tell you its an outrage.

The Army nannys soldiers, so it encourages them to act like kids.
 
I think the point is neither the Army or the state teaches much responsibility. I mention the Army because its a good example of what soldiers regard as normal life when in reality its having someone control the most basic of functions.
If you tell a civvie its the governments job to look after their kids after a while they expect it.

I think families broke down years ago, the difference was no one really gave a toss, now its an outrage and twitter/facebook will tell you its an outrage.

The Army nannys soldiers, so it encourages them to act like kids.
I'd say the army teaches much responsibility. It get 18yr olds to get out of bed and turn up to work each day...
 
I'd say the army teaches much responsibility. It get 18yr olds to get out of bed and turn up to work each day...
What happens if the 18 year old doesn't get out of bed?
 

O Zangado

War Hero
Just a couple of thoughts from an old fart. Firstly, school uniform was meant to obviate the difference between rich and poor so as to avoid a) bullying of the less well off and b) avoid the bullying of the kid with the posh shoes. Secondly, schools existed to educate, not to be an extension of social services.

I remember a few Jewish kids who were excused daily Chapel, a couple of offspring of Asian origin, a dwarf* and a victim of thalidomide who had fingers on the end of his shoulder joints. Nobody had 'issues' and nobody was victimised to my knowledge. Sports were compulsory for all (apart, obviously, for the dwarf and the thalidomide kid), as was participation in the CCF. One lad in my year was killed aged seventeen as a pillion passenger in a motorbike smash. We were given two hours free to go to the local crem if we wished (we all went - nobody skived off) and then it was back to lessons as per. There was no mention of grief counselling and suchlike.

I would add I joined the school aged ten when the junior classrooms had serried ranks of desks with inclined, lift-up lids and inset ceramic ink pots full of blotting paper in the year that the prefects ceremonially broke the cane with which they were still (more than fifty years ago now) allowed to beat pupils.

*The dwarf, no disrespect - nobody ever called him that and I only use it for his PerSec and for ironic emphasis - went on to get a good degree and inherit the family business, which made him a millionaire. And good luck to him too.

OZ

.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
I gather all the archbishops (or something) have condemned the government for not rushing to give free school dinners for the poor and deprived while a survey report has concluded that obesity is mainly among the poor and deprived.
 
I gather all the archbishops (or something) have condemned the government for not rushing to give free school dinners for the poor and deprived while a survey report has concluded that obesity is mainly among the poor and deprived.
There are good reasons for that. If you've got a small food budget and aren't confident cooking it's cheaper to buy frozen Iceland stuff than cook from raw ingredients.

I watch the 'Eat well for less' programme on the BBC and it's amazing how many adults can't use a kitchen knife or saucepan to cook potatoes, preferring to buy in prepared roasties and mash.

If mummy and daddy are buying fresh veg chances are they are willing to cook it as well.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
There are good reasons for that. If you've got a small food budget and aren't confident cooking it's cheaper to buy frozen Iceland stuff than cook from raw ingredients.

I watch the 'Eat well for less' programme on the BBC and it's amazing how many adults can't use a kitchen knife or saucepan to cook potatoes, preferring to buy in prepared roasties and mash.

If mummy and daddy are buying fresh veg chances are they are willing to cook it as well.

Not that good because school lessons used to include cookery, housekeeping, needlework, metalwork and woodwork for all.
 
even the troop mong eventually learns to get out of bed on time

Thats he might, after numerous chances. And even then he is monitored for more mongness.
 
Not that good because school lessons used to include cookery, housekeeping, needlework, metalwork and woodwork for all.
They still do, at least in every school I've worked in.

The issue is that, like everything else, it must be measured against targets and show 'progress' and be reported on and data collected. Thus, rather than spending a lesson making bread or whatever, there is now a 4 week project researching bread recipes, designing their own loaf tin, making the bread and then evaluating the overall experience. @Nimbus had more experience of that end (I think).
 

syrup

LE
I gather all the archbishops (or something) have condemned the government for not rushing to give free school dinners for the poor and deprived while a survey report has concluded that obesity is mainly among the poor and deprived.

Ah yes the Archbishops
Head of one of England's biggest land owners and Landlords.
Archbishops live in Palaces (see the Archbishop of York's below)
They could feed every kid in England many times over but choose not to.
They call out the Government but their God chooses not to advise them to feed the children.

Bishopthorpe Palace where the Archbishop of York whines about kids going hungry.

 
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ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
They still do, at least in every school I've worked in.

The issue is that, like everything else, it must be measured against targets and show 'progress' and be reported on and data collected. Thus, rather than spending a lesson making bread or whatever, there is now a 4 week project researching bread recipes, designing their own loaf tin, making the bread and then evaluating the overall experience. @Nimbus had more experience of that end (I think).

Of course, it's paperwork but not real work.
 

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