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Universal free school meals

the biggest issue is you cant ask why someone needs assistance or extra help you cant sit the person down and go through their budget with them, because then your discriminating. I bet you any amount of money if you had to bring a bank statement and do a budget with the foodbank workers the use of food banks would drop 35-40%

Young soldiers get paid (basic) very well compared to their civvie counterparts, yet a sizaeble amount run out of cash before the end of the month, every month.

People wont listen. Why would they if they have the choice of either getting free stuff if they blow their cash or conserving their cash and getting **** all?
 
Aren't most of the feckless with starving kids on Universal Credit, which six months ago got raised by £20/week? Do I need to ask what they did with the extra twenty quid?
 
The majority of the country, thats why they arent donating all their spare money to the poor downtrodden kids.

Millionaire champagne socialists aren't donating 'spare' money from their £200k per week wages to the poor downtrodden kids.

Doesn't stop them gobbing off about us putting our hand in our pocket, though.

I only wish there were more celebrities jumping on the bandwagon.
 

XPara Mugg

War Hero
Sit the oldies with the kids.

The kids will learn something whilst they eat.
I think I've been quite restrained until now. :-o

Have you tried to get into a school recently? It's easier to get into a nuclear weapons compound. All those nasty people out there.

If I were still a head teacher, I wouldn't want to do the risk assessment on that one. Nor take responsibility in the current blame culture. Nor pay for all those DBS checks. There would be whole departments employed in making sure the legislation, regulations, policy, guidance, assessment, monitoring, inspection, recording, background checks, references, access control, segregated facilities etc. etc. etc. (ad infinitum) was all in place. Not a cheap alternative.

Neither is taking kids into care instead of paying a bit to feed them. There could be ways that get food into children, rather than money into betting shops; as many here seem to fear. Story drift......... When I took over a residential school (care home with education, in old money) right back in 1999. The starting point for fees (paid by local authorities) was £1660 a week. Four years later, when I moved on, I had instituted a sliding scale of fees but the stating point was £2200 a week. OK, we had a high staff ratio, because we had very difficult boys, but if you put lots of kids into care you are just widening the funnel that will lead a small minority to places like that.

Where would all those care homes come from? And the appropriate staff? Remember, care homes are businesses and have a bit of a reputation for employing cheap staff*. It has taken 20 years to get a long way towards sorting out quality in care homes and putting in place a half decent inspection regime. Putting right the negative effects of the deregulation and effective privatisation put in place by the Thatcher government has been a hard slog with many casualties in both staff and kids (sorry, looked after young people). The infrastructure just doesn't exist and is beyond current capacity to create. Or maybe there could be Nightingale care homes. Big hangars full of children freed from the 'care' of parents (as previously described on this thread) and placed into the hands of staff fully inculcated with just what they are not allowed to do (no matter how tempting a clip round the ear might be) and so are the kids.

*A few years before went there, a previous owner, if he found himself of short evening/night care staff, would go to the pub down the road and ask the general crowd, "Does anyone want a shift?"

I'm not against adults coming into schools. Really good idea and I instituted and encouraged it (but not so much in the last 20 years or so - reasons above). I ran cooking clubs in primary schools in 'rough' areas. Often I had more mums 'helping' than I had kids in the club. They were desperate to learn how to cook something other than ready meals. That is where the solution lays. Don't blame them. We are where we are. Open up manifold routes for parents (and 'about to be' parents) to acquire these skills. You need lots of different routes in for small groups. After all, that's how you eat an elephant;). Amongst other approaches, why not a 'learn to cook club' for mums, where the product is eaten by these poor starving waifs? Simple ingredients are inexpensive and that is, surely, the whole point. Oh.... I know ...... regulations again. Food hygiene certificates, premises inspections, local authority licencing (my idea of opening the school cafeteria to the local community failed on this one - even snacks for the night school classes). It goes on and on.

Enough. I spent nearly forty years trying to sort this shit out. It seems that every box you try to open contains a sprung jack that punches you in the face and hits you on the side of the head with a summons to a professional standards investigative meeting, while jabbing multiple regulation into your gut.

And breath............
 
I think I've been quite restrained until now. :-o

Have you tried to get into a school recently? It's easier to get into a nuclear weapons compound. All those nasty people out there.

If I were still a head teacher, I wouldn't want to do the risk assessment on that one. Nor take responsibility in the current blame culture. Nor pay for all those DBS checks. There would be whole departments employed in making sure the legislation, regulations, policy, guidance, assessment, monitoring, inspection, recording, background checks, references, access control, segregated facilities etc. etc. etc. (ad infinitum) was all in place. Not a cheap alternative.

Neither is taking kids into care instead of paying a bit to feed them. There could be ways that get food into children, rather than money into betting shops; as many here seem to fear. Story drift......... When I took over a residential school (care home with education, in old money) right back in 1999. The starting point for fees (paid by local authorities) was £1660 a week. Four years later, when I moved on, I had instituted a sliding scale of fees but the stating point was £2200 a week. OK, we had a high staff ratio, because we had very difficult boys, but if you put lots of kids into care you are just widening the funnel that will lead a small minority to places like that.

Where would all those care homes come from? And the appropriate staff? Remember, care homes are businesses and have a bit of a reputation for employing cheap staff*. It has taken 20 years to get a long way towards sorting out quality in care homes and putting in place a half decent inspection regime. Putting right the negative effects of the deregulation and effective privatisation put in place by the Thatcher government has been a hard slog with many casualties in both staff and kids (sorry, looked after young people). The infrastructure just doesn't exist and is beyond current capacity to create. Or maybe there could be Nightingale care homes. Big hangars full of children freed from the 'care' of parents (as previously described on this thread) and placed into the hands of staff fully inculcated with just what they are not allowed to do (no matter how tempting a clip round the ear might be) and so are the kids.

*A few years before went there, a previous owner, if he found himself of short evening/night care staff, would go to the pub down the road and ask the general crowd, "Does anyone want a shift?"

I'm not against adults coming into schools. Really good idea and I instituted and encouraged it (but not so much in the last 20 years or so - reasons above). I ran cooking clubs in primary schools in 'rough' areas. Often I had more mums 'helping' than I had kids in the club. They were desperate to learn how to cook something other than ready meals. That is where the solution lays. Don't blame them. We are where we are. Open up manifold routes for parents (and 'about to be' parents) to acquire these skills. You need lots of different routes in for small groups. After all, that's how you eat an elephant;). Amongst other approaches, why not a 'learn to cook club' for mums, where the product is eaten by these poor starving waifs? Simple ingredients are inexpensive and that is, surely, the whole point. Oh.... I know ...... regulations again. Food hygiene certificates, premises inspections, local authority licencing (my idea of opening the school cafeteria to the local community failed on this one - even snacks for the night school classes). It goes on and on.

Enough. I spent nearly forty years trying to sort this shit out. It seems that every box you try to open contains a sprung jack that punches you in the face and hits you on the side of the head with a summons to a professional standards investigative meeting, while jabbing multiple regulation into your gut.

And breath............

School days were the best times of my life.

Footy in the playground, crafty fags and fingering girls behind the bike sheds.

I loved being the Janitor.
 
I would . . .

Council - "Kids want/need school meals? Right luv, blow into this Smokerlyzer® and we'll see check your smoking level"

muvva - "What?"

Council - "Yep if it shows you're above the criteria and you're deemed a moderate or heavy smoker, we'll feed you kids, but we'll deduct it from their child benefit. If you eventually blow clear, we'll stop the deductions. Fair?"


1603721484857.png


 
Neither is taking kids into care instead of paying a bit to feed them. There could be ways that get food into children, rather than money into betting shops; as many here seem to fear. Story drift......... When I took over a residential school (care home with education, in old money) right back in 1999. The starting point for fees (paid by local authorities) was £1660 a week. Four years later, when I moved on, I had instituted a sliding scale of fees but the stating point was £2200 a week. OK, we had a high staff ratio, because we had very difficult boys, but if you put lots of kids into care you are just widening the funnel that will lead a small minority to places like that.

Where would all those care homes come from? And the appropriate staff? Remember, care homes are businesses and have a bit of a reputation for employing cheap staff*. It has taken 20 years to get a long way towards sorting out quality in care homes and putting in place a half decent inspection regime. Putting right the negative effects of the deregulation and effective privatisation put in place by the Thatcher government has been a hard slog with many casualties in both staff and kids (sorry, looked after young people). The infrastructure just doesn't exist and is beyond current capacity to create. Or maybe there could be Nightingale care homes. Big hangars full of children freed from the 'care' of parents (as previously described on this thread) and placed into the hands of staff fully inculcated with just what they are not allowed to do (no matter how tempting a clip round the ear might be) and so are the kids.
Then improve the care homes, something that the state can directly control.
Its not "paying a bit" to feed kids that you should be concentrating on, its the fact children are with ********* who won't feed them, if they cant manage to feed them, they aren't likely to look after them in other ways.
So remove them. Not "pay a bit" to leave them with shit parents.
 
Aren't most of the feckless with starving kids on Universal Credit, which six months ago got raised by £20/week? Do I need to ask what they did with the extra twenty quid?
You're preaching to the concerted in this "echo chamber". PMBJ was on TV just this lunchtime, confirming the extra £1k payment increase :( .

What would YOU suggest to buy-pass the spending decisions of the irresponsible, incapable, parents ?!
 

Offa

War Hero
I think I've been quite restrained until now. :-o

Have you tried to get into a school recently? It's easier to get into a nuclear weapons compound. All those nasty people out there.

If I were still a head teacher, I wouldn't want to do the risk assessment on that one. Nor take responsibility in the current blame culture. Nor pay for all those DBS checks. There would be whole departments employed in making sure the legislation, regulations, policy, guidance, assessment, monitoring, inspection, recording, background checks, references, access control, segregated facilities etc. etc. etc. (ad infinitum) was all in place. Not a cheap alternative.

Neither is taking kids into care instead of paying a bit to feed them. There could be ways that get food into children, rather than money into betting shops; as many here seem to fear. Story drift......... When I took over a residential school (care home with education, in old money) right back in 1999. The starting point for fees (paid by local authorities) was £1660 a week. Four years later, when I moved on, I had instituted a sliding scale of fees but the stating point was £2200 a week. OK, we had a high staff ratio, because we had very difficult boys, but if you put lots of kids into care you are just widening the funnel that will lead a small minority to places like that.

Where would all those care homes come from? And the appropriate staff? Remember, care homes are businesses and have a bit of a reputation for employing cheap staff*. It has taken 20 years to get a long way towards sorting out quality in care homes and putting in place a half decent inspection regime. Putting right the negative effects of the deregulation and effective privatisation put in place by the Thatcher government has been a hard slog with many casualties in both staff and kids (sorry, looked after young people). The infrastructure just doesn't exist and is beyond current capacity to create. Or maybe there could be Nightingale care homes. Big hangars full of children freed from the 'care' of parents (as previously described on this thread) and placed into the hands of staff fully inculcated with just what they are not allowed to do (no matter how tempting a clip round the ear might be) and so are the kids.

*A few years before went there, a previous owner, if he found himself of short evening/night care staff, would go to the pub down the road and ask the general crowd, "Does anyone want a shift?"

I'm not against adults coming into schools. Really good idea and I instituted and encouraged it (but not so much in the last 20 years or so - reasons above). I ran cooking clubs in primary schools in 'rough' areas. Often I had more mums 'helping' than I had kids in the club. They were desperate to learn how to cook something other than ready meals. That is where the solution lays. Don't blame them. We are where we are. Open up manifold routes for parents (and 'about to be' parents) to acquire these skills. You need lots of different routes in for small groups. After all, that's how you eat an elephant;). Amongst other approaches, why not a 'learn to cook club' for mums, where the product is eaten by these poor starving waifs? Simple ingredients are inexpensive and that is, surely, the whole point. Oh.... I know ...... regulations again. Food hygiene certificates, premises inspections, local authority licencing (my idea of opening the school cafeteria to the local community failed on this one - even snacks for the night school classes). It goes on and on.

Enough. I spent nearly forty years trying to sort this shit out. It seems that every box you try to open contains a sprung jack that punches you in the face and hits you on the side of the head with a summons to a professional standards investigative meeting, while jabbing multiple regulation into your gut.

And breath............
Well said fellah. You hit more than one nail on the head there.
 

XPara Mugg

War Hero
Then improve the care homes, something that the state can directly control.
Its not "paying a bit" to feed kids that you should be concentrating on, its the fact children are with ********* who won't feed them, if they cant manage to feed them, they aren't likely to look after them in other ways.
So remove them. Not "pay a bit" to leave them with shit parents.

Did you even read the disparity in costs? I bolded some nearby words to help.

A week in care was upwards of £2200 (count the zeros) a week in 2004 and I had kept costs down, like any responsible, tax paying, rate paying person would.
 
Millionaire champagne socialists aren't donating 'spare' money from their £200k per week wages to the poor downtrodden kids.

Doesn't stop them gobbing off about us putting our hand in our pocket, though.

I only wish there were more celebrities jumping on the bandwagon.
There is already enough money "swilling" around in "the system".

The question, discussion, should be how it can be assured . . . re-directed . . . so those amounts intend for the welfare, food and clothing of children, is actually used for such . . . if not by the feckless parent(s), then how/by whom?!
 
Last edited:
There is already enough money "swilling" around in "the system".

The question, discussion, should be how it can be assured . . . re-directed . . . so those amounts intend for the welfare, food and clothing of children, is actually used for such . . . if not by the feckless parent(s), the how/by whom?!

I don't think there is enough money swilling around in the system.

Even less when the CV19 bill lands on the doormat.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I think I've been quite restrained until now. :-o

Have you tried to get into a school recently? It's easier to get into a nuclear weapons compound. All those nasty people out there.

If I were still a head teacher, I wouldn't want to do the risk assessment on that one. Nor take responsibility in the current blame culture. Nor pay for all those DBS checks. There would be whole departments employed in making sure the legislation, regulations, policy, guidance, assessment, monitoring, inspection, recording, background checks, references, access control, segregated facilities etc. etc. etc. (ad infinitum) was all in place. Not a cheap alternative.

Neither is taking kids into care instead of paying a bit to feed them. There could be ways that get food into children, rather than money into betting shops; as many here seem to fear. Story drift......... When I took over a residential school (care home with education, in old money) right back in 1999. The starting point for fees (paid by local authorities) was £1660 a week. Four years later, when I moved on, I had instituted a sliding scale of fees but the stating point was £2200 a week. OK, we had a high staff ratio, because we had very difficult boys, but if you put lots of kids into care you are just widening the funnel that will lead a small minority to places like that.

Where would all those care homes come from? And the appropriate staff? Remember, care homes are businesses and have a bit of a reputation for employing cheap staff*. It has taken 20 years to get a long way towards sorting out quality in care homes and putting in place a half decent inspection regime. Putting right the negative effects of the deregulation and effective privatisation put in place by the Thatcher government has been a hard slog with many casualties in both staff and kids (sorry, looked after young people). The infrastructure just doesn't exist and is beyond current capacity to create. Or maybe there could be Nightingale care homes. Big hangars full of children freed from the 'care' of parents (as previously described on this thread) and placed into the hands of staff fully inculcated with just what they are not allowed to do (no matter how tempting a clip round the ear might be) and so are the kids.

*A few years before went there, a previous owner, if he found himself of short evening/night care staff, would go to the pub down the road and ask the general crowd, "Does anyone want a shift?"

I'm not against adults coming into schools. Really good idea and I instituted and encouraged it (but not so much in the last 20 years or so - reasons above). I ran cooking clubs in primary schools in 'rough' areas. Often I had more mums 'helping' than I had kids in the club. They were desperate to learn how to cook something other than ready meals. That is where the solution lays. Don't blame them. We are where we are. Open up manifold routes for parents (and 'about to be' parents) to acquire these skills. You need lots of different routes in for small groups. After all, that's how you eat an elephant;). Amongst other approaches, why not a 'learn to cook club' for mums, where the product is eaten by these poor starving waifs? Simple ingredients are inexpensive and that is, surely, the whole point. Oh.... I know ...... regulations again. Food hygiene certificates, premises inspections, local authority licencing (my idea of opening the school cafeteria to the local community failed on this one - even snacks for the night school classes). It goes on and on.

Enough. I spent nearly forty years trying to sort this shit out. It seems that every box you try to open contains a sprung jack that punches you in the face and hits you on the side of the head with a summons to a professional standards investigative meeting, while jabbing multiple regulation into your gut.

And breath............

There are various trusts and charities running how to cook classes.
Mrs F nearly had a job with one.

But she was helping with such matters in another role but on a more one to one fashion.
 
Did you even read the disparity in costs? I bolded some nearby words to help.

A week in care was upwards of £2200 (count the zeros) a week in 2004 and I had kept costs down, like any responsible, tax paying, rate paying person would.
You want neglected children to stay with shit parents who don't care for them due to the cost?
A bit harsh in my opinion, but fair enough.
 
I'm a not sure it could be, was ever, described as "Very Bad", but in those bygone days, it certainly did restrict the outlook/horizons, carer choices, employment decisions, of a lot of youngsters.

Whilst not necessarily (these days), in an industrial/manufacturing environment, it is suggested that with the increasing activity of D-I-Y . . . the skills that could be learnt by both boys and girls, would no longer justify the description of "defunct metal and woodwork lessons".

Although, I am not sure I would be comfortable with the thought of Mrs RCT(V), drilling, nailing, putting up shelves here, there and everywhere!

My younger brother took “Home Economics”, “Domestic Science”, or whatever it was called fifty-five years ago. And, as I posted earlier . . .

"When my own son was of an age, I (was) volunteered as a Scout Leader (and, Assistant Cub Scout Leader). I assure you, children are quite capable of "fending for themselves" if given the wherewithal!!

I was responsible for preparing the menus for one week-long summer's camp, under canvas, using OPEN/WOOD fires!!

You are now asking me to go back thirty years, but . . . there will now be a generation of wives in Linlithgow (and the wider Central Belt of Scotland), cursing myself, and the skills I ensure their husbands acquired!!

There were four Patrols, each with six lads aged 11-15 years. They had to prepare ALL their meals for themselves, and whichever leader would be joining them.

Breakfasts: were cereal/cornflakes . . . alternating with . . . porridge (which HAS to include raisins!!); PLUS, sausage and tomato . . . alternating with . . . egg and bacon.

Main meal: ranged from the aforementioned Spaghetti Bolognese; stew; mince and mash; with pancakes to follow, and bread-and-butter pudding on one occasion. Everything prepared with only ONE frying pan; a mixing bowl; and, a couple of cooking pots “billies”, per Patrol.

The lads were responsible for boiling the washing-up water on their open/wood fires, and cleaning/washing everything . . ."
My father was an old style scout leader and did this. Pit toilets and waste pits. Open fire cooking. My mother did sewing first aid and mom stuff. The whole troop and all the old canvas ridge troop tents drove to the river seven in a removal van and camped and kayaked for 10 days middle weekend was Sunday roast cooked in oil tin ovens. Off into the woods with axes and bush saws. Mid 70s. Absolutely halcyon days.
 
Feed the fat kids to the hungry kids


Overweight and obesity prevalence​

These are some of the outcomes from the National Child Measurement Programme publication for 2018/19:
  • For reception year, obesity prevalence was 9.7%, from 9.5% in 2017/18.
  • For year 6, obesity prevalence was 20.2%, which was similar to 2017/18.
  • Obesity prevalence was higher for boys than girls in both age groups.
  • For children living in the most deprived areas obesity prevalence was more than double that of those living in the least deprived areas, for both reception and year 6.
For the full published analysis, follow the link below:
National Child Measurement Programme, England, 2018/19
 

XPara Mugg

War Hero
You want neglected children to stay with shit parents who don't care for them due to the cost?
A bit harsh in my opinion, but fair enough.
What am I doing? I don't usually waste my time arguing with you. In fact I don't usually even read you. I don't think I've ever replied.

A large chunk of my professional life was spent dealing with people who could not present their arguments other than as a randomly assembled series of non-sequiturs. It was often a part of their Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

ODD link

But they were children and there was some hope.
 
My father was an old style scout leader and did this. Pit toilets and waste pits. Open fire cooking. My mother did sewing first aid and mom stuff. The whole troop and all the old canvas ridge troop tents drove to the river seven in a removal van and camped and kayaked for 10 days middle weekend was Sunday roast cooked in oil tin ovens. Off into the woods with axes and bush saws. Mid 70s. Absolutely halcyon days.
I don't claim to be as good as your parents, or my own Scout Leader when I was a lad . . . but I did what I could ;) .

When I became involved, I did not recognise the organisation :( .

They were in the habit of using a "Central Kitchen", with food prepared by adult leaders. The boys gained, learnt, nothing, from the experience :( .
 
What am I doing? I don't usually waste my time arguing with you. In fact I don't usually even read you. I don't think I've ever replied.

A large chunk of my professional life was spent dealing with people who could not present their arguments other than as a randomly assembled series of non-sequiturs. It was often a part of their Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

ODD link

But they were children and there was some hope.
I notice you didn't actually deny the fact you would throw vulnerable children under the bus to save yourself a few quid.
Funny how ruthless some people are when it comes to money.
 

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