Unit's Policy is to AGAI

Discussion in 'Military Discipline' started by phil37, Sep 1, 2010.

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  1. Just been told by my current unit that anyone losing their ID card will face AGAI 67 action as this has always been the policy there. Is this an abuse of the AGAI 67 system? If you claim that it's been stolen then does this class it as being lost?

    My wallet was previously lifted in 1999 (ID card inside) but the OC still charged me 50 quid.
  2. My wallet was nicked in 02, along with about 14 others. 6 of us were military. As soon as we had a crime number it was all dealt with by the Admin Office. Not sure why your Unit uses AGAI action. Has there been a load of lost MOD 90's recently?
  3. AGAI action can be taken against anybody for an administration infringement, this includes loss of ID card, loss of driver license (physical loss as well as driving offenses) and even loss of passport (pretty much loss of anything as long as CoC feel there is reasonable belief your bad admin caused it). Most units don't usually do this for a first offenses, mainly for repeated loss of items. AGAI 67 is a very flexible and useful tool. However if it's been stolen with your wallet (you're daft) but it's up to the CoC to investigate if possible and use common sense (I know unlikely). Hope that helps.
  4. I am sure that a good solicitor could stop the AGAI action, from what I heard is that it is no longer a prevalent offence. I think that facing a AGAI for a stolen card is a bit over the top. If you lose it through bad admin fine. However the CoC in the army like to use people as an example, something that ECHR has tried to stop in civil and criminal law.

    I personally think the AGAI system is weighted in favour of the CoC, the sooner someone realises this the better, discipline without representation can be abuse.

    The passport is owned by the Home/Foreign office, it is not army property and if you have paid for it as I, its not the armys business.

    Drivers licence is owned by the DVLA, it is not army property, if you have paid for it as have I its not the armys business,

    Also it is prejudice to try and discipline twice for an offence. Its just a case of the CoC doing what the **** it wants again unfairly.
  5. sounds fair enough with me, imagine working for a civvie employer and losing your key card, fist time prob get away with it., second time get a bollocking and third time perhaps a warning.
    they prob get a lot of mongs losing id cards, passports etc and rather than single people out it sounds like they are treating everybody the same and using agai to punish people. if your not a mong the surely it wont be a problem anyway and your immediate coc would know your not a mong and sort you out

    i disagree with regard to passports and driving licence not being the armys business, do you need your driving licence to carry out your daily dutys??? then yes it is the armys business as being without it could stop you from fullfiling your duty. if your posted abroad or on foreign trip and for some reason you need to get home, if the unit has your passport its plain and simple to get you home. if you have it and it goes missing then what happens.

    when you sign on the dotted line your signing more than a contract of employment, your admitting the fact you do not have full responsibilty for your day to day life and will have to surrender certain parts of you to the army, like it or not
  6. You should just be thankful you're not in NI. Current policy is disciplinary action for loss of card due to carelessness (such as leaving it in your car and it gets nicked or whatever), or administrative action if a genuine accident (such as fell out of your pocket etc) and a first offence. Decision as to which one is at the discression of the CoC. This is for obvious reasons of course.

    Minor AGAI action is just a 'slap on the balls' (to quote a former Staff Assistant), so don't worry about it.
  7. Stolen ID cards can be duplicated and potentially used to gain access to Military installations by people who's sole purpose is to kill you, your wife and your kids, just because of the job you do. Step up take the bolloking or secure your sh1t better. Just because none of us have been killed by terrorists for a while doesn't mean that their not watching us. Look at what happened in Ulster not so long back
  8. If your ID card is stolen then thats a case for review by the CoC.
    The passport may be owned by the home office but in deployable units (most of them) you cannot go on ops without it. Most brigades operate that the individual retains the passport not the unit.

    The driving license is required for any driving task accompanied by FMT600, so no driving license = no driving = ineffective.

    If convicted of a motoring offense (not including traffic camera offenses for some reason) including a caution, you will be AGAI'd (major sanction)
  9. TE[QUO=magnet;3390296] If convicted of a motoring offense (not including traffic camera offenses for some reason) including a caution, you will be AGAI'd (major sanction)[/QUOTE]

    I thought it illegal to be punished twice for the same crime?
  10. it's similar to the old Sect 69a conduct unbecoming or bringing the army into disrepute
  11. I thought it illegal to be punished twice for the same crime?[/QUOTE]

    AGAI67 is administrative punishment, much like employment law. It is nothing to do with the army act, civil or criminal law.

    Much like if Fred West got convicted of murder and his building company then fired him - him being a murderer who puts people under patios is incompatible with his employment as a builder.

    Or, if you were working in an office and photocopied your cock and balls on the photocopier. The police might charge you with indecent exposure, and your boss would fire you for professional misconduct.

    In this case, a guy has lost some company property. His company (the army) decides that this is unacceptable and punishes him for it. It's got nothing to do with criminal or civil law.
  12. I imagine on his standing orders there is a section that states that soldiers must take reasonable care of their personal documentation. If he subsequently doesn't take care of his personal documentation then he can be charged under section 36 of the Army Act 1955, which could result in imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years (IIRC).

    He should only count himself lucky that he is being dealt with under employment rules (the AGAI system) and not criminal law! (Army Act 1955).
  13. i get the feeling that a few folk may be getting AGAI 67 and the armed forces act 2006 mixed up with each other.

    we dont deal with loss of id cards with summary dealing because it is an administrative issue, consider the following scenario.

    a young female soldier is in own and has too much to drink, in her drunken state she decides to go home leaving her friends in the pub whilst staggering home a couple of natives spot drunken female and drag her up a dark alley whre she is robbed of her posessions raped and beaten.

    Now would it be fair and in line with military discipline to drag her in front of the SSM and warn her for orders for losing her MOD 90?
    i think everyone would agree the answer is no.
  14. No but you could charge her for drunkenness which is a prevalent offence in the vast majority of units ^_~
  15. yes you coud charge her for drunkeness under the armed forces act 2000 but when it goes to summary appeals court you would have a hard job to prove that the incident occured because she was drunk when it may well have went down that way even if she had been sober.
    so infact your overzealousness to apply military law to a soldier who was infact the victim of a violent sexual attack would result in you looking very stupid in front of an appeals court.
    Remember on of the principles of military law is that it is fairly applied!