Unionist anger over Blair remarks

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4831804.stm

Unionists have criticised Tony Blair over a reference he made to "Protestant extremists" during a speech on global terrorism and religious intolerance.
He said Muslims who committed acts of terrorism were no more true to their faith than the "Protestant bigot" who murdered Catholics in Northern Ireland.

The DUP's Ian Paisley Junior said this was "ill-thought out and provocative".

Ulster Unionist leader Sir Reg Empey said the prime minister's remarks were "far-fetched" and "dangerous".

Mr Blair's speech in London on Tuesday was the first of three on foreign policy and terrorism.

It comes three years after bombs started dropping on Baghdad at the start of the US-led campaign that resulted in the fall and eventual capture of former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

They are no more proper Muslims than the Protestant bigot who murders a Catholic in Northern Ireland is a proper Christian

Tony Blair


Analysis: Blair's speech

He told the audience at a Reuters event that religious extremism - including the term Islamist extremism - should be labelled as such.

Mr Blair said he realised his remarks were going to be controversial, but there was an "interesting debate" being conducted within government about how to counter extremism in British communities.

"There are those, perfectly decent-minded people, who say the extremists who commit these acts of terrorism are not true Muslims, and of course, they are right," he said.

"They are no more proper Muslims than the Protestant bigot who murders a Catholic in Northern Ireland is a proper Christian.


Ian Paisley Junior said it was a studied insult by Mr Blair
"But unfortunately, he's still a Protestant bigot.

"To say his religion is irrelevant is both completely to misunderstand his motive and to refuse to face up to the strain of extremism within his religion that has given rise to it."


Mr Blair said terrorism "will not be defeated until its ideas, the poison that warps the minds, its adherence, are confronted at their essence, at their core".

Unionist politicians in Northern Ireland reacted angrily to Mr Blair's comments, with the DUP's Ian Paisley Junior saying it was a "studied insult of the Protestant community".

"The prime minister's comments, singling out Protestantism as a root cause of terrorism, is so unbalanced that it not only reveals (his) true nature, but also identifies a weakness in his judgements, his character and his understanding," he said.

Meanwhile, former Presbyterian moderator Ken Newell said bigotry could be found in all religions and needed to be challenged, but Mr Blair's comments were not balanced.

"I think his words were unwise and unbalanced and he does point the finger at the Protestant community in particular," he said.

"I know for a fact that everyone within their own faith traditions realises that in those communities there are people who are extreme and very bigoted."
Good to see he's not taking any sides :roll:
 
#2
When will Ian Paisley Jr, Sir Reg Empey and the other Unionists and Protestants realise that in the Gospel according to Bliar (a closet papist anyway) and Sinn Hain, there are only Protestant bigots? Anything Catholics and Republicans did in the past has been miracled away, by the magic of appeasement, as if it never happened; ergo, there can be no Catholic bigots.
 
#3
ViroBono said:
When will Ian Paisley Jr, Sir Reg Empey and the other Unionists and Protestants realise that in the Gospel according to Bliar (a closet papist anyway) and Sinn Hain, there are only Protestant bigots? Anything Catholics and Republicans did in the past has been miracled away, by the magic of appeasement, as if it never happened; ergo, there can be no Catholic bigots.
Well said VB. At least somebody has their finger on the pulse because Bliar hasn't.
 
#4
That man has not a baldy clue about Belfast. Us natives are mostly sectarian bigots and devout Christians of both stripes did a lot of the killing. Oddly the parallel he makes is rather apt but there are more similarities to the fringes of Islam than pious Mr Tony is willing to acknowledge.

As we've just handed Basra to another bunch of beardy sectarian bigots and Baghdad is about to fissure into blood thristy black and decker wielding religous camps I'm reminded of the great British success in Belfast which was also based on wishing away the political realities of a sectarian society and left it far more deeply divided than the one I grew up in. Iraq's a far bigger cock up but the deluded wishful thinking is the same.

I don't like the careless dig at a million Ulster Protestants, there'd be outrage from SF if he'd been a little braver and chosen a Catholic example. But we are an unlovely bunch; I'm surprised Bin Laden didn't issue a fatwa denouncing Mr Tony for tainting Outbism with the stain of Orange bigotry.
 
#5
he wasn't insulting to a million Ulster protestants, he was insulting to Protestant bigots who kill Catholic civilians purely because there are Catholic.

if you class yourself as a bigot with equally murderous intentions then i'm glad he insulted you. i wish he'd fcking shot you, but an insult will do. if you are just, well, normal then he wasn't talking about you so why get upset?

he could of used any anology, a Hindu bigot who kills a Sikh, a Jewish bigot who kills a Muslim, a Muslim bigot who blows up a Hindi shrine or a Catholic bigot who sets fire to various 16th century Protestant reformers.

he chose to use the Protestant bigot analogy to show that he understands that such bigotry exists on his 'own' side as well, making his words seem even more reasonable, therefore more convincing and therefore more effective.

the more reasonable, convincing and effective his words are the fewer bearded freaks with high explosive T-shirts will aim to brake the 100m sprint record with a Britsh Army checkpoint as the finishing line. that is a good thing.

the more reasonable, convincing and effective his words are the less likely it is that some fired up young lad from Bradford will get on a plane to Pakistan and who's next public appearence will be on a tube train with a high explosive rucksack. that is also a good thing.

not very bright are you?
 
#6
cokecan said:
he wasn't insulting to a million Ulster protestants, he was insulting to Protestant bigots who kill Catholic civilians purely because there are Catholic.

if you class yourself as a bigot with equally murderous intentions then i'm glad he insulted you. i wish he'd fcking shot you, but an insult will do. if you are just, well, normal then he wasn't talking about you so why get upset?

he could of used any anology, a Hindu bigot who kills a Sikh, a Jewish bigot who kills a Muslim, a Muslim bigot who blows up a Hindi shrine or a Catholic bigot who sets fire to various 16th century Protestant reformers.

he chose to use the Protestant bigot analogy to show that he understands that such bigotry exists on his 'own' side as well, making his words seem even more reasonable, therefore more convincing and therefore more effective.

the more reasonable, convincing and effective his words are the fewer bearded freaks with high explosive T-shirts will aim to brake the 100m sprint record with a Britsh Army checkpoint as the finishing line. that is a good thing.

the more reasonable, convincing and effective his words are the less likely it is that some fired up young lad from Bradford will get on a plane to Pakistan and who's next public appearence will be on a tube train with a high explosive rucksack. that is also a good thing.

not very bright are you?


Well said CC
 
#7
I'm with CC on this. It does pain me to say I agree with something Bliar has said but on this one he was right. He used the analogy to show that Muslims are not the only religious bigots / extremists who kill people for 'the cause'. If he would have used any religion other than his own the back fire would have undoubtedly been much worse.

He could have gone through all the religions and how extremists from each kill others, but would you want to listen to the cnut any longer than you have to?
 
#8
I was expecting the usual totally unreasonable drivel that typifies the Unionists such as 'Unionist outraged that the sky is blue, Unionists outraged that Catholics breath their air' and so on. Surprised that Blair said this but it is just the dig that the 'rejectionist' Unionist bigots deserve IMO. Anyone can really feel that general public opinion in England and Wales is against the Unionists in NI. This can almost be solely blamed on their public face, Ian Paisley Snr. Paisley Jnr comes across much better than the senile old goat.

Could it be construed that this is a calculated dig by Blair to remind the Unionists that no matter how loyal to the Queen and the flag they are, Sinn Feins day really is coming?
 
#9
"he chose to use the Protestant bigot analogy to show that he understands that such bigotry exists on his 'own' side as well, making his words seem even more reasonable, therefore more convincing and therefore more effective."

Since when has Blair been on the side of anyone who actually wants to be British??
 
#10
he chose to use the Protestant bigot analogy to show that he understands that such bigotry exists on his 'own' side as well
Isn't Blair Catholic?
 
#11
PartTimePongo said:
he chose to use the Protestant bigot analogy to show that he understands that such bigotry exists on his 'own' side as well
Isn't Blair Catholic?
Blair is catholic but that isn't what was meant by the comment quoted. I believe that it was meant to refer to the fact that prods believe they are British as oposed to Irish.

Perhaps someone needs to point out to them that they need to read what it says on the cover of their passports i.e. United Kingdom AND Northern Ireland.

It is a sad fact that 'loyalist' bigots killed more innocent catholics than PIRA did prods in the later years of the Troubles. It was also 'loyalist' prods who attempted to burn out catholics from the falls and bogside during July/August 1969 -aided and abetted by the B Specials. The very reason why we were deployed onto the streets in the first place was to protect catholics from loyalist mobs. If the subsequent events had been handled correctly (by the Government & the Army hierarchy) then PIRA would never have risen from the ashes and 30 years of bloodshed and grief could have been avoided.
 
#13
I believe that it was meant to refer to the fact that prods believe they are British as oposed to Irish.

Perhaps someone needs to point out to them that they need to read what it says on the cover of their passports i.e. United Kingdom AND Northern Ireland.
So according to you, the fact that I have served 20+ years in the British Army still doesn't mean I can consider myself British because I come from the province, and for good measure does the number of prods killng catholics as opposed to catholics killing prods really matter. Blair has singled out the Protestant community (note he should have said loyalist bigots), just another example of New Labour bowing down to Gerry and Co.
 
#14
Isn't Blair Catholic?
:lol:

So according to you, the fact that I have served 20+ years in the British Army still doesn't mean I can consider myself British because I come from the province, and for good measure does the number of prods killng catholics as opposed to catholics killing prods really matter. Blair has singled out the Protestant community (note he should have said loyalist bigots), just another example of New Labour bowing down to Gerry and Co.
Agree with you there Taz. By singling out the Protestant Community he has caused upset. Would it not have been better for him to group both extreme groups? (Loyalists and PIRA/SF)

But wait i forgot.......
Isn't Blair Catholic?
 
#16
"So according to you, the fact that I have served 20+ years in the British Army still doesn't mean I can consider myself British because I come from the province"

My Father in Law came from the province (near Belfast), served in the RAF police and was a prod. He always called himself Irish. My ex was born in RAF Changhi hospital in Singapore (to English parents) and STILL had problems gaining an English/British birth certificate because of the fact that she was not born in Mainland UK.

Yes, Blair should have mentioned both 'sides' however the fact remains that loyalists bigots killed more innocent catholics than PIRA did innocen prods in the later years.

My other comments regarding our initial deployment still stand too.

I also served in NI before anyone chooses to throw brick-bats about that one - all through the 1981 hungerstrike days.
 
#17
Blair is catholic but that isn't what was meant by the comment quoted
I'm sorry Andy , but I have problems believing that is what he meant , especially in light of recent remarks concerning his 'beliefs' and his religous banner waving of late. Add to that the 'rehabilitation' of former terrorists , and quotes in the past by Government Ministers that the shennanigans of PIRA were nowhere as bad as Al-madeup , and I cease to believe his remarks were 'unfortunate'

The only good thing is the resulting apoplectic fit will have reduced the Rev. Ian's lifespan another couple of notches. Shame he couldn't do the same to McGuiness and Adams.


Why didn't he use the remarks 'extremist bigotry on both sides' which there is?
 
#18
Yes, Blair should have mentioned both 'sides' however the fact remains that loyalists bigots killed more innocent catholics than PIRA did innocen prods in the later years.
So you are basing your argument that Blair separated the two extremes because Loyalist factions killed more Catholics than PIRA etc did Prods?

Or is it because Blair himself a Catholic, sympathises with SF, and negotiates with terrorists? (Gerry Adams)
 
#19
PartTimePongo said:
Blair is catholic but that isn't what was meant by the comment quoted
I'm sorry Andy , but I have problems believing that is what he meant , especially in light of recent remarks concerning his 'beliefs' and his religous banner waving of late.

Why didn't he use the remarks 'extremist bigotry on both sides' which there is.
Good response mate. I am in full agreement with that.
 

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