UNHCR to investigate Israel for possible war crimes

Have you just answered your own question?


It's no good quoting two lines of a post - the crux of which you haven't and possibly could not have disagreed with - out of context, hoping nobody notices. That won't work.

You have "looked at their CVs when the initial comment was made"; no prior knowledge or work in depth, then, just an opinion based on a quick scan of CVs to qualify an objection. No materials to hand, no real arguments to make.

When in fact the UNHCR as a collective has failed on numerous occasions - refugees have been blatantly manipulated and abused - the argument has little to do with CVs. It has everything to do with the competence and effectiveness of an organisation about to investigate Israel.

If for instance Filippo Grandi (after Ban Ki-Moon) was Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) - how does that sit with impartiality and neutrality when investigating Israel? Further, some have argued that UNRWA serves to perpetuate the conflict and creates dependency.

So I'll ask you the same question, what exactly qualifies the UNHCR, its chair and its members specifically. And what are the guarantees it will independently and without bias "investigate Israel for killing unarmed protesters in Gaza" ?

You haven't qualified your rather flimsy objection thus far.
Whataboutery.
Did the IDF commit war crimes or not?
Thats the question. Attempting to dissemble by questionning the independence or qualification of the messenger is an obvious attempt to divert attention from the subject.
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
If the ROE leads to the deaths is some hundreds of people, it's quite possible the ROE need adjusting.
It's not that difficult a concept to grasp, is it?

Befehl ist befehl, to coin a phrase, really doesn't cut it.
To qualify to give chapter and verse to whats happening in that part of the world you have to know the Arab mind and way of thinking, even better if you have met them as adversaries. It is now and always will be 'Death to the Infidels' They have no rules, but expect others to 'play Cricket' If they are on your wire and a threat, 'flick off your safety' and do what you have to do!
 
To qualify to give chapter and verse to whats happening in that part of the world you have to know the Arab mind and way of thinking, even better if you have met them as adversaries. It is now and always will be 'Death to the Infidels' They have no rules, but expect others to 'play Cricket' If they are on your wire and a threat, 'flick off your safety' and do what you have to do!
Not sure how that relates to the IDF...
 
Had hezbollah heard of LoAC?
Very likely yes, but it doesn't matter as Palestine is not a nation state, nor signatory to the relevant treaties, whereas Israel is.

Israel is held to a higher standard because it volunteered to be held to it by ratifying the treaties that specify that standard.
 
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overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
Not sure how that relates to the IDF...
The six day war was fought at the height of the Aden Campaign. It was watched very closely by the UK, A plane load of Armour experts arrived from the UK to see the effect of the Israeli owned British Tanks against Russian Tanks, it was found that HESH went through them like a knife through butter. I saw the 'scabs of metal brought back through Aden. This was close assistance from the IDF, who's engineers cut the square thick metal from Russian tanks and handed them over.
Meanwhile your friends the Arabs, but mostly Egyptians were sending camel trains of Russian Grenades, RPGs and Kalashnikovs down to Aden, the effect of this was a lot of dead. Whether in commerce, daily life or warfare, I just don't rate the Arabs! In hundreds of years from now the same problems will still exist! Bravo's touchy feely sympathy? I just don't understand it!
 
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Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
I think his sympathy comes from a combination of no operational service, which might explain his black and white concepts of what happens when things get a bit exciting. A lack of personal contacts with the relevant people involved, and finally a naive belief in Palestinian agenda led propoganda, while blithely dismissing anything by Israel as the opposite.
 
Whataboutery.
Did the IDF commit war crimes or not?
Thats the question. Attempting to dissemble by questionning the independence or qualification of the messenger is an obvious attempt to divert attention from the subject.
I disagree; looking at the accusers (not messengers - they are making accusations not simply relaying facts) is a fair and reasonable course of action. Otherwise you run the significant risk of giving unwarranted credence to biased and targeted disinformation; for instance the fun and games had by Phil Shiner and his "Lawfare" shenanigans.
 
At all costs is carte blanche. It imposes no bounds.
Befehl ist befehl really does not work.
Ok what happens if the Soldiers ignore their orders and don't shoot the protesters?
Are they (the protesters/Freedom fighters/Whatever) bound by the so called LOAC? Or do they only want to kill some jews.
Well Hamas is very clear in it's charter:
"Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people."
And Hezbollah and all the other Nutters aren't any better. They are all terrorists like Daesh or Al-Qaida and they have no rules. As far as i remember we (the West) do not exactly enforce the "LOAC" in combat against Terrorists. And we are in the comfortable position that they can't really hurt us.

So the question is, what would you do? Let them through and kill some Jews oh sorry, it is Zionists in "progressive" Circles? Are there any bounds for them?
And please for one time, don't try to bullshit.
 
Ok what happens if the Soldiers ignore their orders and don't shoot the protesters?
Are they (the protesters/Freedom fighters/Whatever) bound by the so called LOAC? Or do they only want to kill some jews.
Well Hamas is very clear in it's charter:
"Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people."
And Hezbollah and all the other Nutters aren't any better. They are all terrorists like Daesh or Al-Qaida and they have no rules. As far as i remember we (the West) do not exactly enforce the "LOAC" in combat against Terrorists. And we are in the comfortable position that they can't really hurt us.

So the question is, what would you do? Let them through and kill some Jews oh sorry, it is Zionists in "progressive" Circles? Are there any bounds for them?
And please for one time, don't try to bullshit.
Why are you so concerned about what I'd do? the subject is possible war crimes carried out by the IDF.

Once again; I'm not going to get sidetracked into pointless whataboutery.
 
Vanishingly unlikely...
BB, if you want to have a serious discussion about this, you have to have to refrain from avoiding difficult questions and playing the troll.
 
The six day war was fought at the height of the Aden Campaign. It was watched very closely by the UK, A plane load of Armour experts arrived the UK to see the effect of the Israeli owned British Tanks against Russian Tanks, it was found that HESH went through them like a knife through butter. I saw the 'scabs of metal brought back through Aden. This was close assistance from the IDF, who's engineers cut the square thick metal from Russian tanks and handed them over.
Meanwhile your friends the Arabs, but mostly Egyptians were sending camel trains of Russian Grenades, RPGs and Kalashnikovs down to Aden, the effect of this was a lot of dead. Whether in commerce, daily life or warfare, I just don't rate the Arabs! In hundreds of years from now the same problems will still exist! Bravo's touchy feely sympathy? I just don't understand it!
Sergeants Clifford Martin and Mervyn Paice say "Hi".

Drop them a line C/O the King David Hotel, won't you?
 
BB, if you want to have a serious discussion about this, you have to have to refrain from avoiding difficult questions and playing the troll.
I'm not avoiding "difficult questions", I'm just not playing your little game.
 
I think his sympathy comes from a combination of no operational service, which might explain his black and white concepts of what happens when things get a bit exciting. A lack of personal contacts with the relevant people involved, and finally a naive belief in Palestinian agenda led propoganda, while blithely dismissing anything by Israel as the opposite.
Sympathy?
I think both sides are as bad as each other, which clearly annoys you.

ETA; a Moderator having snide little digs in CA?

C-.
 
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