UNHCR to investigate Israel for possible war crimes

@Bravo_Bravo , without trying to be to sarcastic arguing with you is like trying to plait fog,
All I will say is go out to Israel and see for yourself, I guarantee it will be a real eye opener for you.
I came back from there yesterday and I have been enlightened. The IDF may have overstepped the mark on a number of occasions but they have been severely provoked by the Palestinians and will continue to be.
I felt very safe in all the areas that I went to apart from the Palestinian territories where I always hired a reputable guide and would never go into them alone.
I found it very much the same over there 20 years ago . The Israelis although very abrupt when you speak to them are in fact very friendly and will do anything for you . Example ... Oh! you want somewhere to stay for a few days ? My brothers place on kibbutz xxxxx is empty at the moment , heres the keys . Money ? dont be silly , its a pleasure to help . Very friendly people once you break through a very hard exterior . Liked the place so much that during a two week holiday I jacked my job and spent a further month over there .. Have fond memories of the place . But you do have to get into the mindset of the people .
 
Agree with you all the way . I was just trying to point out to @Bravo_Bravo that the IDF were in a very bad place whatever they tried to do . They were set up to fail one way and another .
I don't disagree with the IDF being in a bad place, to some degree as we were in NI. I do feel, however, that the IDF, and Israel more broadly, does itself no favours when the fatalities arising from the conflict are so heavily skewed. It begs the question of proportionality, as it rightly should.

I'm not pretending to know what the answer is, far from it. In fact, I barely understand the current "lay of the land", let alone the influence complex historical animosities have on the situation. One thing is for certain though, the Jews/Israel will never find peace under their current political mindset.
 
Oh Come on Bravo, you know that's complete Bullshit, unless you are talking about the turmoil the whole world was in 75 years ago? All that is quite irrelevant now. Your argument refers to the present day does it not?
You raised the matter of Arabs killing Brits many decades ago, i pointed out that the Israelis have form for same.
Sorry if facts upset you.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
I don't disagree with the IDF being in a bad place, to some degree as we were in NI. I do feel, however, that the IDF, and Israel more broadly, does itself no favours when the fatalities arising from the conflict are so heavily skewed. It begs the question of proportionality, as it rightly should.

I'm not pretending to know what the answer is, far from it. In fact, I barely understand the current "lay of the land", let alone the influence complex historical animosities have on the situation. One thing is for certain though, the Jews/Israel will never find peace under their current political mindset.
It's not their mindset that is the problem, it's the mindset of people determined to wipe them off the face of the earth. Until that is dealt with there will never be peace there.
 
Which shows what -
As ever selected camera angles show very different things so in the lower picture could be using the Pal as a shield, from another angle it could be demonstrated hes protecting him and another he is simply in close proximity

As for the boy on the Armoured vehicle - easy to claim human shield but is it true

Those images are meaningless without context

Remember this Image of the IDF brutalising a small child

View attachment 383882
I queried the image when I saw the rifle but social media was more than happy to believe it and howl with outrage.

Of course when this was later produced
View attachment 383883
It became apparent to most it was apiece of street theatre -

Never mind that poor woman that's been a victim of Israeli / Nato / Friends of the west Airstrikes in every conflict from Afghanistan to Gaza to the Yemen -

Forgive me then if I dont take cropped photos without context alleging IDF (or others) impropriety at face value.

If Israels in the wrong its in the wrong - but those selective images dont help your case
Of course.
Why not back up your argument by showing pictures of fit female IDF soldiers?
 
First I'm going to apologize for a word I shouldn't have used . I am very sorry .
Second Loac was a term I did not recognise so I had ro look it up . Then it came back to me. Its been a very long time .
Third my fevered way of posting is just the way I post . Same as the way you post in a certain way . I will take heed of your words and try and moderate the way I do so .
A post to your utter credit.
 
It's not their mindset that is the problem, it's the mindset of people determined to wipe them off the face of the earth.
That's what happens when one side continues to occupy the land of the other side, against established international conventions and laws. Do you expect the displaced to simply acquiesce?
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
That's what happens when one side continues to occupy the land of the other side, against established international conventions and laws. Do you expect the displaced to simply acquiesce?
That would be the side that took it after 4 other nations tried to wipe it off the face of the earth that side? Do you expect them to let it happen? Fairly sure that was rather against said conventions and law too.
 
It's not their mindset that is the problem, it's the mindset of people determined to wipe them off the face of the earth. Until that is dealt with there will never be peace there.
Its a sad fact but I have to agree with that
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
That's what happens when one side continues to occupy the land of the other side, against established international conventions and laws. Do you expect the displaced to simply acquiesce?
If the other side launched a war of aggression and got their arses handed to them it tends to end up as vae victis.
 
That would be the side that took it after 4 other nations tried to wipe it off the face of the earth that side? Do you expect them to let it happen? Fairly sure that was rather against said conventions and law too.
First, the '67 conflict became "hot" when Israel took the view that Egypt's blockade of the Straits of Tiran was casus belli. Both sides mobilised, and Israel attacked first. That is historical fact and, in typical double-speak, is often referenced as an example of self-defence through overt aggression.

Second, see Israeli settlement timeline - Wikipedia for the continued expansion of settlements, in direct breach of international law.
 
If the other side launched a war of aggression and got their arses handed to them it tends to end up as vae victis.
That may be the case in some instances, but not all. Moreover, there is little serious debate as to which party started the '67 war. Again, it's the text book example of "preventative aggression".
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
That may be the case in some instances, but not all. Moreover, there is little serious debate as to which party started the '67 war. Again, it's the text book example of "preventative aggression".
Are we just airbrushing the Yom Kippur assault in 73 then?
 
Utter rubbish, on both accounts.
You broke your silence with that?
Poor.
And yet you could find the time to go to the USA and Eastern Europe on exchange exercises, but not do an Operational Tour.

1 out of 10, must do better......
 
1 out of 10, must do better......
You gave me a "dislike", rather than responding with any substance, when I asked you to explain your position.

I know you have your Friday night "tradition", but I'd still be interested in a cogent answer if you can muster one.
 
That may be the case in some instances, but not all. Moreover, there is little serious debate as to which party started the '67 war. Again, it's the text book example of "preventative aggression".
Given how close they came to being wiped out in '48 it's hardly surprising they weren't prepared to take big risks in '67.
 
Given how close they came to being wiped out in '48 it's hardly surprising they weren't prepared to take big risks in '67.
Indeed, and their military strategy worked well. Their actions since, however, appear to have caused only further misery, particularly with respect to settlements.

Do you hold the view that those displaced people may hold the same view for the same reasons?
 
It's not their mindset that is the problem, it's the mindset of people determined to wipe them off the face of the earth. Until that is dealt with there will never be peace there.
Wiped out or suffocated. To be fair, Israel isn't innocent by any stretch. According to UNSG Ban Ki Moon it's played into the hands of extremists, violated international law and violated the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).

But looking at the UN's historical mandates and condemnatory activities (including the Human Rights Council), censorship, and subversive propaganda by multiple states and agencies (with the possible exception of UNSG Kofi Annan who behaved differently): the UN and its collection of hangers-on may have done more harm than good, solidifying anti-Semitism through selectivity and politicisation. The current crop of human rights activists are predictably bang in the middle of this mess.

Israel's Ambassador to the UN, Danny Danon in 2016: "[Over the past decade] During this time the UN passed 223 resolutions condemning Israel, while only eight resolutions condemning the Syrian regime as it has massacred its citizens over the past six years. This is absurd".
Ban Ki-moon says UN has 'disproportionate' focus on Israel.

I'll qualify that: two years ago UNSG Ban Ki Moon accused the UN of issuing a "disproportionate volume of resolutions, reports and conferences criticizing Israel" (over decades). It's almost as if the UN is being played and politically manipulated. Secretary-General's briefing to the Security Council on the Situation in the Middle East, including the Palestinian question [as delivered].

It's not really a surprise that Israel is cheesed off, on top of Gaza violence. "There is an anti-Israel bias at the heart of the UN and its agencies by political manoeuvring", all of which suggests the UN is virtually ineffective while apparently worsening the situation.
 

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