UNHCR to investigate Israel for possible war crimes

I think his sympathy comes from a combination of no operational service, which might explain his black and white concepts of what happens when things get a bit exciting. A lack of personal contacts with the relevant people involved, and finally a naive belief in Palestinian agenda led propoganda, while blithely dismissing anything by Israel as the opposite.
Nah, its a dig.

Stop lying, stop dripping, suck it up.

And try to discuss the issues, good lad.
 
It is worth a discussion.... I have said on other threads, policing civvies who aren't willing to obey orders will inevitably lead to bad things happening, or force the armed party to withdraw... The Israelis could in theory pull back 500m, but I am certain the pattern of provocations would just push further up to the new line and it puts the Israelis in a very uncomfortable position.

One only has to look at the performance of Blue helmets across the world to see that they aren't averse to straying over the line of good behaviour and I often think the game of who is nicer than whom, is akin to two bald men fighting over a comb.

I will take fire from the legal minded, but I don't believe in human rights as a way to legislate and quantify what is or isn't right.. Human beings just don't think like that. To bring peace to the ME, labelling one side only deepens the conflict.

My bold .. Hmm The Israelis pulled out of Gaza totally in 2005, even using the IDF to force Israeli settlers out of all Jewish settlements. Their thanks from the Palestinians even more attacks on Israel from the treacherous sods.
Shadow of Israel's pullout from Gaza hangs heavy 10 years on | Reuters
snip "But increasingly, the pullout is also seen as a disaster by Israelis, with thousands of rockets from Gaza having rained down on Israel since 2005 and a peace deal with the Palestinians even further out of reach".

It would appear the only thing the Palestinians respect or will listen to is brute force. Any attempt at conciliation is taken as a sign of weakness!
As an Israeli IDF reserve Major said to me years ago on a business trip I was having in Israel when I asked him why Israel was so hard on them. His reply was interesting "you Christians are taught to turn the other cheek if struck, if we the Jews did that to the Palestinians when they strike us, the Palestinians would rip our heads off".
Sadly it seems that all of the incidents I have seen since them confirms that, they only respect/understand violence!!
 
AIUI they where shot at the border, or even on their own side of it.

I don't think there are any Israeli settlements nearby. So, swing and a miss.
Perhaps if the little Pali shit stirrers weren't at the border agitating trouble of every sort they would run no risk of being shot.

The IDF are acting with restraint. Should the full force of the IDF be unleashed, Gaza would be wiped from the map within 24 hours.
 
Slight bit of thread drift if @Bravo_Bravo doesn't mind . When all this was happening as in the opening post I was watching events unfold on the TV and thinking the IDF were between a rock and a hard place . They had to stop the Palis from tearing down the fence and running amok . They couldn't pull back a few hundred meters as what was happening would just keep repeating and in a lot of places theres just not room to pull back

The tactics seemed to be under a hail of thrown rocks and stones from catapults plus a small amount of gunfire they were using the cover of smoke from the many fires to rush forwards , go to ground , set more fires rush forwards again , then throw grappling hooks on ropes at the fence . Then trying to pull the fences down .

Now in my mind the IDF showed a lot of restraint , a lot of countries in the area would have just set up GPMG's and let rip . Yes a lot of Palies were killed or injured but they had placed themselves in harms way and I dont see what else the IDF could have done to deal with the situation apart from just letting them get away with it and we know what would happen then

Now I have a question to throw out to the arrse members out there ........ How would you deal with the situation if you were there and not the IDF , What would you do in the IDF's place ?
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
Bravo Bravo will really like this: A British sentry shouted over some sandbags to report to his Pl HQ that he had just shot at an Arab entering the position over the wire. "Did you get him?" shouted back the Sgt. "I dunow!" shouted back the sentry. "But he don't seem to care much about anything other than what he is screaming about now!"
 
Slight bit of thread drift if @Bravo_Bravo doesn't mind . When all this was happening as in the opening post I was watching events unfold on the TV and thinking the IDF were between a rock and a hard place . They had to stop the Palis from tearing down the fence and running amok . They couldn't pull back a few hundred meters as what was happening would just keep repeating and in a lot of places theres just not room to pull back

The tactics seemed to be under a hail of thrown rocks and stones from catapults plus a small amount of gunfire they were using the cover of smoke from the many fires to rush forwards , go to ground , set more fires rush forwards again , then throw grappling hooks on ropes at the fence . Then trying to pull the fences down .

Now in my mind the IDF showed a lot of restraint , a lot of countries in the area would have just set up GPMG's and let rip . Yes a lot of Palies were killed or injured but they had placed themselves in harms way and I dont see what else the IDF could have done to deal with the situation apart from just letting them get away with it and we know what would happen then

Now I have a question to throw out to the arrse members out there ........ How would you deal with the situation if you were there and not the IDF , What would you do in the IDF's place ?
I've plenty of operational experience, I'd do the same. Simple.
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
Just pointing out that Israel has a bit of form for killing Brits, in response to your comment about the Arabs doing the same
Oh Come on Bravo, you know that's complete Bullshit, unless you are talking about the turmoil the whole world was in 75 years ago? All that is quite irrelevant now. Your argument refers to the present day does it not?
 
I was alluding to the rockets being fired into Israel on a daily basis but I do see your point
I appreciate what you were referring to, and I'm glad you see "my" point. While one side keeps taking territory and the other side is displaced, irrespective of the merits of claims, it will never be resolved. The fuel of both believing "God" is on their side will ensure decades of misery to come.
 
Im very sorry that I dont know everything as you appear to do
Ive noticed that you have made a couple of snide comments about my posts in the last few days . I must have hurt your feelings somewhere along the line . Either that or you just dont like my hairstyle .
It's not your hairstyle, it's that you post with fevered certainty about matters related to LOAC, but then say you don't know what it is.

The subject matter deserves better than that.
 
Which shows what -
As ever selected camera angles show very different things so in the lower picture could be using the Pal as a shield, from another angle it could be demonstrated hes protecting him and another he is simply in close proximity

As for the boy on the Armoured vehicle - easy to claim human shield but is it true

Those images are meaningless without context

Remember this Image of the IDF brutalising a small child

Israeli soldier.png

I queried the image when I saw the rifle but social media was more than happy to believe it and howl with outrage.

Of course when this was later produced
not israeli.jpg

It became apparent to most it was apiece of street theatre -

Never mind that poor woman that's been a victim of Israeli / Nato / Friends of the west Airstrikes in every conflict from Afghanistan to Gaza to the Yemen -

Forgive me then if I dont take cropped photos without context alleging IDF (or others) impropriety at face value.

If Israels in the wrong its in the wrong - but those selective images dont help your case
 
My bold .. Hmm The Israelis pulled out of Gaza totally in 2005, even using the IDF to force Israeli settlers out of all Jewish settlements. Their thanks from the Palestinians even more attacks on Israel from the treacherous sods.
Shadow of Israel's pullout from Gaza hangs heavy 10 years on | Reuters
snip "But increasingly, the pullout is also seen as a disaster by Israelis, with thousands of rockets from Gaza having rained down on Israel since 2005 and a peace deal with the Palestinians even further out of reach".

It would appear the only thing the Palestinians respect or will listen to is brute force. Any attempt at conciliation is taken as a sign of weakness!
As an Israeli IDF reserve Major said to me years ago on a business trip I was having in Israel when I asked him why Israel was so hard on them. His reply was interesting "you Christians are taught to turn the other cheek if struck, if we the Jews did that to the Palestinians when they strike us, the Palestinians would rip our heads off".
Sadly it seems that all of the incidents I have seen since them confirms that, they only respect/understand violence!!
I was playing devils advocate and taking an arbitrary distance appropriate to a point beyond the effective range of an assault rifle. The point being HAMAS would not leave it alone and still look to hit the Israelis whatever distance they withdraw too. That removes any idea that the Israelis can do anything beyond dominating the space and making it clear the consequences of approaching the fence.
 
Slight bit of thread drift if @Bravo_Bravo doesn't mind . When all this was happening as in the opening post I was watching events unfold on the TV and thinking the IDF were between a rock and a hard place . They had to stop the Palis from tearing down the fence and running amok . They couldn't pull back a few hundred meters as what was happening would just keep repeating and in a lot of places theres just not room to pull back

The tactics seemed to be under a hail of thrown rocks and stones from catapults plus a small amount of gunfire they were using the cover of smoke from the many fires to rush forwards , go to ground , set more fires rush forwards again , then throw grappling hooks on ropes at the fence . Then trying to pull the fences down .

Now in my mind the IDF showed a lot of restraint , a lot of countries in the area would have just set up GPMG's and let rip . Yes a lot of Palies were killed or injured but they had placed themselves in harms way and I dont see what else the IDF could have done to deal with the situation apart from just letting them get away with it and we know what would happen then

Now I have a question to throw out to the arrse members out there ........ How would you deal with the situation if you were there and not the IDF , What would you do in the IDF's place ?
The British army has the luxury of no longer being responsible for colonial policing. Wherever we did, then civilian deaths resulted. Its the price you have to pay to maintain control of a hostile people.... I think the IDF have remained very restrained despite being dealt a very s***y stick by their politicians... The media and the audience don't have the knowledge or understanding anymore, as people have never served so what is published on the BBC is utter drivel.

Where I agree with Bravo is the resolution appears entirely absent. The peace process should be front and centre at all times, to at least give some hope, irrespective of how useless at times it is dealing with the Palestinians bent politicos.
 
My bold .. Hmm The Israelis pulled out of Gaza totally in 2005, even using the IDF to force Israeli settlers out of all Jewish settlements. Their thanks from the Palestinians even more attacks on Israel from the treacherous sods.
Shadow of Israel's pullout from Gaza hangs heavy 10 years on | Reuters
snip "But increasingly, the pullout is also seen as a disaster by Israelis, with thousands of rockets from Gaza having rained down on Israel since 2005 and a peace deal with the Palestinians even further out of reach".

It would appear the only thing the Palestinians respect or will listen to is brute force. Any attempt at conciliation is taken as a sign of weakness!
As an Israeli IDF reserve Major said to me years ago on a business trip I was having in Israel when I asked him why Israel was so hard on them. His reply was interesting "you Christians are taught to turn the other cheek if struck, if we the Jews did that to the Palestinians when they strike us, the Palestinians would rip our heads off".
Sadly it seems that all of the incidents I have seen since them confirms that, they only respect/understand violence!!
. "Any attempt at conciliation is taken as a sign of weakness!"

That goes for the whole of Islam
 
@Bravo_Bravo , without trying to be to sarcastic arguing with you is like trying to plait fog,
All I will say is go out to Israel and see for yourself, I guarantee it will be a real eye opener for you.
I came back from there yesterday and I have been enlightened. The IDF may have overstepped the mark on a number of occasions but they have been severely provoked by the Palestinians and will continue to be.
I felt very safe in all the areas that I went to apart from the Palestinian territories where I always hired a reputable guide and would never go into them alone.
 
Last edited:
It's not your hairstyle, it's that you post with fevered certainty about matters related to LOAC, but then say you don't know what it is.

The subject matter deserves better than that.
First I'm going to apologize for a word I shouldn't have used . I am very sorry .
Second Loac was a term I did not recognise so I had ro look it up . Then it came back to me. Its been a very long time .
Third my fevered way of posting is just the way I post . Same as the way you post in a certain way . I will take heed of your words and try and moderate the way I do so .
 
I appreciate what you were referring to, and I'm glad you see "my" point. While one side keeps taking territory and the other side is displaced, irrespective of the merits of claims, it will never be resolved. The fuel of both believing "God" is on their side will ensure decades of misery to come.
Agree with you all the way . I was just trying to point out to @Bravo_Bravo that the IDF were in a very bad place whatever they tried to do . They were set up to fail one way and another . I wasnt even trying to argue with him , just trying to point out the above fact . Whatever you think of them .
 

Latest Threads

Top