Uncontested Scrums!? Have a word!!!

#1
Have a look at this joke

James Bourke, consultant general surgeon at Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham has called for the ban after seeing young players paralysed during his 30-year stint as honorary medical officer to Nottingham Rugby Football Club.
If this change went ahead it would signal the end of the game as we know it, jesus christ it would be like playing netball or even worse rugby league!!

I already have a bit of a hrummpff when uncontested scrums are declared in games nowadays. Personally I think when a team can no longer effectively scrum then they should forfeit the game. The whole point of winning at rugby (or any sport for that matter!) is knowing that you are bigger and better than the other team. Taking away contested scrums even now changes the whole dynamics of the game. I mean you only need to recall the U21 combined services Vs U21 universities team the other week at Army/Navy. The combined services tighthead completely nailed his opposition and the subsequent subs that came on, but ultimately he was the one punished when uncontested scrums were declared because he couldn't exploit his advantage - of being a better prop.

Arrrghhhh, in case you hadn't noticed I am completely against this! :evil:
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
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#2
Must agree, what's the point of spending many years honing a fine figure for propping and then not being able to scrum.
 
#3
You're not the only one. Scrumming is what rugby is all about. I'm sure there's other players on the pitch doing something but i dont really notice as i'm to busy trying to stop the pitch spinning after a good scrum. I'm not the best prop in the world and have ended up going backwards once or twice and generally i learn from my mistakes. Yes Props get hurt and yes they get neck injuries but believe it or not every time we bind up we know exactly what the risks are and how to deal with them. OK if a prop gets injured and has to be subbed it can't be helped and if the replacement front row gets injured then your starting to play a dangerous game by sticking somebody who hasnt played tht position before. What we need to stop though is teams then announcing they have no front row players just because they are getting humped in the scrums. I've played games where after 20 mins the loosehead has gone down with a dubious injury the team announce they have no replacement then suddenly bring on a 18 stone winger for uncontested scrums. You lose an edge to your game and the forwards tend not to make that much of an impact at the first breakdown after the scrum because they've switched off. Scrumming is a dark art that seems to scare people who have no experience of it. Just leave it to the boys up front check your hair then take the glory and score the try we worked hard for.
 
#4
What a load of rollocks. The scrum is a major part of the game! Yes it can be brutal, but thats part of the fun! You know when you sign on for the game what the risks are, and you have to accept what he outcome can be, but the same is true in almost any game/spot.

Though I do agree witht he use of uncontested scrums when inappropriate people are used as forwards. To be untrained frontrow in a scrum is dangerous. From a game point of view, id rather see uncontested scrums rather than call it all off. At the end of the day, you still see a lot of good rugby and the scrum, though major, isn't everything.

From a coaching point of view, (my own opinion) it is up to the club to ensure that all players should have at least a basic grounding in all positions to ensure you get a really flexible team. In all the teams i have coached, i get all players to play (training) games in all sections and major positions. This has the advantage of being able to competently fill in, but also knowing how hard the player next to you is having to work doing their job will ensure you play a better ball, or give better support when needed,
 
#5
Oneshot said:
From a coaching point of view, (my own opinion) it is up to the club to ensure that all players should have at least a basic grounding in all positions to ensure you get a really flexible team.
I don't think me on the wing would bea very good idea.....

Im a loosehead by trade, and uncontested scrums spoil the game. It even spoils the backs game, because everyone knows that when theres a penalty the other side will call scrum more than usual. Props know the risk, if they didn't then they'd be Flankers.
 
#7
This has been met with universal derision in the rugby world. If this tit got his way, how long would it be before he declared tackling too dangerous and a tackle is made by pulling a frilly slik handkerchief from the waistband! Uncontested scrums destroy the game dynamics and should be avoided as long as props are available. At low level, if teams have "run out" of props we always loan one to keep scrums contested. I have been in a game where a second row broke his neck partly due to an inexperienced prop infront but the number of times this hppens must be really small compared with the number of scrums completed.

CW
 
#8
I know-lets ban line-outs. They're unadvantageous to short-arses like me and I could get hurt when the lanky strings of piss land on me.

:roll:
 
#9
What's the point of scrumming then? May as well play rugby league. I doubt this bloke is a rugby fan. Now cricket bats in cricket, you may hit people...
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#10
In fact whu not bomine the two games

Ruget.

Rugby played played where each player has a cricket bat for tackling and self defence!
 
#11
Believe it or not, but there are a few things we can learn from the Italians. 1. Before every match (at whatever age group) a list of runners and riders has to be produced to the ref. This list shows name, shirt number/position and federation registration number (mandatory for insurance in case of accidents). In addition to nominated front-row players, all those who have been trained to play front row must also be indicated. More to the point, the trainer must sign the form so responsibility lies with him if he places an un-trained player in the scrum. Uncontested scrums will only be allowed by the ref if ALL the listed trained players have been somehow used up.
2. Allied to the above, slightly off thread, is the mandatory requirement for federation membership. ALL players, from U7s right up to growed-ups, must have an annual medical certificate before being allowed on the pitch - whether for training or a match. For U15s upwards, this medical has to be conducted by a registered sports doctor and the medical is specific to sport. By and large, clubs fund the medical - locally it costs Euro 25 for a youngster and Euro 30 for an adult - but it is worthwhile. I have seen a number of juniors referred to a cardio specialist because the sports doc has found a slight problem. In almost all cases, though, it was found that it was just a 'growing-up' thing and the lads went ahead and played. But at least the problems were found early enough.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#12
The issue is also who are uncontested scrums to protect, the players from injury? the ref from being sued? or the Rugby Union from being sued?
 
#13
Trackpen said:
In addition to nominated front-row players, all those who have been trained to play front row must also be indicated. More to the point, the trainer must sign the form so responsibility lies with him if he places an un-trained player in the scrum. Uncontested scrums will only be allowed by the ref if ALL the listed trained players have been somehow used up.

Most refs do this, they call the Front Row and Front Row replacement players (beefy 2nd Rows etc) for a word before the game, all the "stay square", "bind properly" etc.
 
#14
Xplosiverab said:
Oneshot said:
From a coaching point of view, (my own opinion) it is up to the club to ensure that all players should have at least a basic grounding in all positions to ensure you get a really flexible team.
I don't think me on the wing would bea very good idea.....
Being a second row, i have played a few times at full back and on the wing when we have needed to fill the gaps. Having a basic knowledge about these positions helped and though i'm no mr speedy when i caught one of those sneeky back runners trying to to a fancy chip and pick up, he picked up just before i hit him. Those backs make a satisfying crunch when I hit them!!! The downside is, that i can only sprint for so long before i'm blowing out of every orafice!
 
#15
Rugby Union has in the past catered for all shapes and sizes and offers anyone the chance to play. Sadly League only caters for athletes 'cause if you dont get back 10 you cant play. Union is getting more like league by the day. Watch the super 14's in the contact its moved almost immediatly not disimilar to league. Although scrums in union generally go the way of the team putting the ball in there is still a place for the fat basta*d to play sport. If they go uncontested then any coach with any sense will go for fit guys as you get the ball anyway:does league ring a bell.
Are we going to have a hybrid game? Harlequins have both clubs as do leeds and Wigan/Orrell.

In summary if your a fat cu*t get on a diet if you want to play rugby. Otherwise stick to golf.
 
#16
smithy749 said:
Rugby Union has in the past catered for all shapes and sizes and offers anyone the chance to play. Sadly League only caters for athletes 'cause if you dont get back 10 you cant play. Union is getting more like league by the day. Watch the super 14's in the contact its moved almost immediatly not disimilar to league. Although scrums in union generally go the way of the team putting the ball in there is still a place for the fat basta*d to play sport. If they go uncontested then any coach with any sense will go for fit guys as you get the ball anyway:does league ring a bell.
Are we going to have a hybrid game? Harlequins have both clubs as do leeds and Wigan/Orrell.

In summary if your a fat cu*t get on a diet if you want to play rugby. Otherwise stick to golf.
Please be quiet you fecking idiot.. Yes rugby union is moving towards faster movement of the ball around the contact in the southern hemisphere but in the north we still ruck and maul. Thats because thats what the pitch and weather conditions suit. Just because it works for the australians and kiwis to move the ball from the contact when they come north they have to adapt their games to contest against the bigger packs. New zealand did this on their last tour, Australia didnt. The south Africans never do. Rugby Union is getting more exciting as it develops and is attracting bigger crowds and better TV ratings than league. Face it rugby leaague is rugby with the complicated bits removed and was exciting for while when rugby union was suffering from the curse of the old farts brigade. However Rugby union has changed and is now a far more exciting sport. I'm a prop and i can happily play both sports. One of the big changes in union was bringing in league defense tactics and I adapted my game to be able to get onside after the tackle and get up with the line no matter where i joined it. I've creamed a few centers this way. If you want to talk fitness you really should try scrumming. Have you ever tried to get from the scrum to the contact while your so exhausted from pushing the pitch is spinning. In rugby union all positions are expected to get take part in the contact if required. Hence why you get wingers rucking out sometimes. The fact is while rugby league palyers are getting smaller rugby union players are getting bigger. Hence why you have guys like Ben Cohen weighing in at 16 stone and playing on the wing.



Edited due to illiteracy
 
#17
I am what some people may term one of smithy749's "fat C*nts" being nearly 18 stone and a prop; but am also pacey as quite a lot of this is muscle....

However the game is changing; no longer do you get obese old men who wobble from scrum to scrum and occasionally make it to the back of a ruck or maul; today's prop is more dynamic, and must be able to get to all and every breakdown that he is required to; some might even describe todays props as simply big flankers who can prop.....I know that's why they lobbed me in the front row!

Uncontested scrums are the bane of my life, it takes everything away from rugby. Simply put rugby is a battle of strength, with 30 men on a pitch vying to outdo their oppo through putting in bigger hits etc. The scrum is perhaps the most obvious of these......imagine the strenght of 8 guys on each side each weighing at least 16 stone smashing together!
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#18
As a "fat cnut" prop who may not be the fastest player on the pitch I would still like to think I carry the ball and make the tackles when it counts.

I may not catch a winger or centre if I'm after them,but they sure as hell don't ran past me!

On a slightly different note, one of the great things about rugby as a kids game is that everybody gets to play to matter what their speed or shape is. I know that a few years back the rules were changed in Mini Rugby whereby the P4/5's lost their 3 man scrum and the P6/7's went from a 5 man to a 3 man. The kids were gutted because they wanted to scrum!
 
#19
Smithy, you're a t0sser.

Try scrummaging, it might make a man of you. Front row players work the hardest of players on the pitch. As a fellow prop bull, I can sympathise withe the "pitch spinning" phenomenom, especially when the opposition Tight Head has nutted me on the engage.

Try that Smithy, one blokes head, with 8 blokes pushing him directly into your skull as their going for a wheel. Then tell us to sort our lives out.

Cnut
 
#20
Having played every position in the forwards at some time or other I can state the the Props have the worst job of the lot. Uncontested scrums would be a farce. when does leaning on become driving FFS? Even now when you are not supposed to dirve before the ball is in on the call of engage you smack the other bloke as hard as you can.
Our school side was coached by an ex welsh international, and something about his accent meant that "crouch, touch, engage" transalted to:

Crouch, Touch, Smack the Basteward.

The ref cant stop aggresion from appearing at Scrums, telling teams not to drive is encouraging people to get injured, how many times have reugby players explained to Footballers and concerned mothers and girlfriends that you dont get hurt in the tackle proivded you go into it with conviction. The same goes for scrums, if front rows come together without sufficient force and drive then the situation will get worse, one side will always try to steal a few feet on the engage, jand equally one side will always try and get to tunnel and their sides body angle a little bit lower. The ref cant prevent that happening even in unopposed scrums you do it to make life uncomfortable for the other blokes.

Scrums should be opposed controlled and aggresive, unopposed just invites problems from people entering them without proper conviction.
 
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