Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Random_Task, Oct 8, 2005.
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The whole country is a tragic mess, do we really have to wait for Mugabe to die of old age?
Hey don't knock it. They might yet just turn on each other. There's still time for someone to shoot him and that would be a more fitting end.
Well they could always go visiting the DRC again. See what they can forage. Assuming they have enough fuel to get there.
Seriously, what did everyone expect was going to happen. The historical examples to the North were clear enough. Build a 20 foot wall around the whole lot an fill it with water. Mind you they would probably steal the bricks.
Don't be such a cnut. It's not the general publics fault. It's that cnut Mugabe who is to blame. Regime Change. Now, President Blair......
Surely we can find an old DC-3 somewhere, and some ex pongo's in their mid to late 50's to fly in there and seize power?
Or am i asking too much?
'Wild Geese' stylee, cool, but look how that little jaunt ended.
Yes,the poor Welsh medic was attacked by indiginous locals who were trying to stake their claims as being "the only gays in the village"
One man to blame for whats going on. Please. So you beleive that p1ss Even without resorting to the rigging the ballot box there were significant numbers of voters who put their X in Mugabes box, despite everything that has happened. Oh and of course all those poor deprived guys were forced to take over the farms, destroy the property and torture the animals.
What is happening now is the result of Bobs determination to cling to power whatever the cost, and the 'people's' simple minded greed. We want what whitey had. But hey we don't want to work for it. Just steal it with govermental sanctioning.
I lived there. I don't now. The evidence of what was to happen was obvious even to the dullest or most optimistic.
I spent several years in London helping with the charity that seeks to set up those ex Rhodesians who have fallen the hardest. The same ones who reckoned we were taking the chicken run in the mid eighties because, 'hey, its only Bob, the rest of the locals love us".
So then I guess if not being particularly moist in the eye when I hear more news of sh1te happening in Zim and spouting nonsense about external efforts to overthrow the current regime, when those internally aren't doing it. Then cnut must be my name.
Anyway I have had this argument over the years too many times. If anyone had been remotely interested in the future well being of Zimbabwe rather than just brushing an embarassing page of colonial history under the carpet, they could have either covertly supported Smith and managed staged change to black empowerment, or in 1980 not tolerated Bobs initial round of violence and intimidation. But nobody did and its now a mess. Sh1t hey, surprised? Not!
That sums things up quite succinctly.
Sorry no can do. President Blair will only go where the burning Bush tells him with another mission from God - and the last I heard, there was no runny black stuff in that part of Africa!
Ask Scratchy, he's got caught not so long ago trying to do just that.
Well said Sir!
But a couple of points to note. General concensus of opinion at the time was that Nkomo was going to beat Mugabe in the elections - and he was seen as the better, safer, bet - along the lines of the 'staged change' that you mention. Somebody got their sums VERY badly wrong. Mugabe was due to be 'removed' in the event of winning by a small band of C sqn, but within minutes of actually setting off the 'mission' it wa scrubbed by those on high - for reasons that have never fully been explained, especially those subsequently left out to hang!
And how many people even know of the 5th Brigade's massacre of the Shona - let alone accept it happened behind their backs!
We were convinced that fat Josh or even Muzorewa would get in. Mugabe was a shocker!! Lots went on that was not explained including the almost indecent haste with which the ballots were destroyed post election. As for removing bad Bob, the version I heard was that the Rhodesian High Command at the time were hopelessly compromised and that any action taken would have failed as a result. Also General Walls got a bad case of cold feet, but that was only rumour.
Not sure about 5th Bge slotting Shona.
They certainly massacred many of the Matabele. We lived in Matland during that period and through the uprising by Josh's troops at Entumbane. Lots of Matabele got taken out. Bloody grim for quite some time and that was the early eighties. Good indicator for the future for many of us.
Ooops! Got carried away with past memories. 5th Bde of course was doing it's nasty work 'on behalf of' the Shona in Matabeleland - not the other way round.
Walls was always a 'constitutionalist.' Would happily take any orders from the appropriate (civil) authorities that were within the law (or at least could be excused reasonably easily). He was not a man to stand up and make such unconsitutional decisions of his own - to assassinate the person who had just, on the face of it, won a democratic election as his new president!
Treason, as far as Rhodesia was concerned, lie at the highest levels. I cannot remember the exact details, but I believe it was one of the ministers in the 'war cabinet' that was reporting back daily to the FCO in London - who were the passing on the info to ZANLA/ZIPRA contacts! Said person tipped off that Mugabe was due to be 'removed' and HMG caused an almighty stink. Not the first time it happened either, during transition talks in London, he was also due to be 'removed' in his hotel and that also got called off with minutes to go!
Between 1982 and 1985 the Fifth Brigade brutally crushed any resistance in Matabeleland. Over 20 000 civilians died and were buried in mass graves. The intensity of their actions during the mid-1980s is associated with a specific Zimbabwean word, Gukurahundi. Gukurahundi is a traditional term in Shona (one of Zimbabwe's native languages), which means "the early rain which washes away the chaff before the spring rains". The chaff, i.e., "hundi", remains after the corn has been removed during the process of thrashing the corn, "kupura mhunga kana rukweza".
In post-independent Zimbabwe, the term "gukurahundi" is a euphemism used for the actions of Robert Mugabe's Fifth Brigade in the Ndebele provinces of Matabeleland and the Midlands during the early to late 80s.
Excuse my ignorance, but was the 5th Bde the one trained by the North Koreans, while the British army were training the rest?
As I understand it, the Brit trained bits were sidelined, and the NK trained ones (i.e. Ebagum's SS) were used for 'internal' work.
Also, I thought that they were making a decent profit from looting in the DRC? I presume that the Big Knobs rapidly stole all the stolen stuff, and the soldiers got nothing.
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