Ukrainian 737 crashes in Iran

An air crash investigation expert has said that the analysis of the black boxes is unlikely to show anything particularly interesting.
Black box analysis results from Iranian air crash likely to be 'anticlimactic,' says expert

He said it would likely just show everything going normally and then the data will just stop. There may be a few seconds of the aftermath.
Poole said the flight data recorder is likely to show the plane flying along normally right up until the missile struck. At best, he said, the cockpit recorder might have captured a few words from the flight crew.

"I think you'll hear a normally functioning airplane and crew speaking and data will just stop," said Poole. "You might hear a few seconds of the aftermath."

The expert in question is a former Canadian Transportation Safety Board investigator who specialised in flight recorders for more than 30 years. He set up Canada's black box analysis lab and now sets up black box analysis facilities around the world. I'm going to guess that he knows what he's talking about in this field.
Mike Poole, a former Transportation Safety Board investigator, has been specializing in flight recorders for more than 30 years. He built Canada's black box analysis lab and now sets up recorder analysis facilities around the world. He said the results of the black box analysis, when they come, could be disappointing.

"It'll be entirely anticlimactic," said Poole, CEO of Plane Sciences Inc. "The likelihood they're going to bear fruit is pretty small or zero."
 
Ukraine's ambassador to Canada has committed to helping Canadian victims of the airline crash receive the compensation they are due under international rules from the Ukrainian airline.
Ukraine pledges help for airline compensation for Iran plane crash victims
Ukraine's ambassador to Canada says his government will help Foreign Affairs Minister François-Philippe Champagne secure compensation from Ukraine International Airlines for the families of all those killed on Flight 752, including 57 Canadian citizens.

Champagne is in Kyiv March 3 for the start of a two-day visit that will include a meeting with the head of the airline, where he will try to speed up delivery of the compensation it must pay under international aviation law to the victims' families.

Envoy Andriy Shevchenko said his government sees no obstacles to the airline meeting its international legal obligations to compensate families.

"This carrier is committed to all the international rules and applications that apply to such situations," the ambassador said in an interview Friday.

"If there is anything the government [of Ukraine] can do on this, it will be, of course, done."

However, the ambassador also said the Ukrainian airline was in a "very difficult position". It's not clear of that means they are short of money to pay the required compensation without first getting any money they may be owed from Iran.
The Ukrainian airline will also be seeking compensation from Iran for the families of its own victims who died in the crash, Shevchenko said.

"The carrier has found itself in a very difficult position," he said.

"They have obligations they have to fulfil but also they expect compensation from Iran. Of course, they have lost people of their own. But when it comes to international obligations, there has been a very clear signal from the airline they are committed to that."

According to what has been previously published, compensation from the airline is a separate issue from any compensation the victims may receive directly from Iran.
 
Nearly two months after the Ukrainian passenger jet was shot down, Iran still hasn’t released the black boxes. The Canadian Foreign Minister has again called for their release during a visit to Ukraine:
“We do expect from Iran to give access to the black box without any further delay,” Francois-Philippe Champagne said during a press conference with his Ukrainian counterpart Vadym Prystaiko, while on a visit to the Ukrainian capital Kiev.
He’s asking for ‘transparency in the investigation so that justice can be served’:
“We have questions and we expect Iran to provide answers,” Champagne said.

“I always say transparency is the best antidote to conspiracy, so we should demand from Iran in one voice, the international community, to provide access to these black boxes, to allow for transparency so that justice can be carried out.”
 
Canada has requested that Iran postpone downloading the contents of the crashed plane's black boxes indefinitely, as the world has bigger problems at the moment.
Canada postpones download of Flight 752 black boxes indefinitely

The issue apparently is that experts from Iran and a number of countries were to travel to a lab in Europe to witness the download of the data, but travel is too difficult at this time due to COVID-19 to make that practical.
Canada told Iran this week to hold off indefinitely from going forward with the much-anticipated download and analysis of flight recorders recovered from the wreckage of downed Flight 752 that killed dozens of Canadians.

Hassan Rezaeifar, the head of the Iranian investigation team, said he invited representatives from eight countries to travel to a laboratory in Europe to start the process, but countries requested it be postponed because of the pandemic.

"At this moment, planning [a] trip is impossible for some states due to COVID-19," said Rezaeifar in an email to CBC News.

A Canadian official confirms Iran got in touch on Monday and countries all had a consistent response: Travelling was impossible at this time, and likely for some time to come.
 
Canada has requested that Iran postpone downloading the contents of the crashed plane's black boxes indefinitely, as the world has bigger problems at the moment.
Canada postpones download of Flight 752 black boxes indefinitely

The issue apparently is that experts from Iran and a number of countries were to travel to a lab in Europe to witness the download of the data, but travel is too difficult at this time due to COVID-19 to make that practical.
Convenient.
 
About a month or so ago the Iranians had difficulty trying to travel with respect to this issue, because Iran was one of the early centres of COVID-19 infection. Now it is difficult for anyone to get anywhere, so Canada is being forced to bow to reality.
Not a lot more to learn.
Plane crashes because Iranians shot it down.
All it might do is prove beyond doubt that the Iranians lied.
But everyone knew that already, because they have admitted liability.
 
The black boxes from the Ukrainian air liner lost in Tehran are being sent to France where they will be read with the participation of all the countries involved.
Black boxes retrieved from passenger flight destroyed over Iran going for analysis next month: UN agency
The Montreal-based UN civil aviation agency announced on Twitter that Iran had informed it that the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder would be read out in France on July 20 with the participation of all countries involved.

The French air safety authority have confirmed this.
The French Civil Aviation Safety Investigation Authority, BEA, confirmed that Iran had requested its technical assistance with repairing the boxes and downloading their data.

As a significant number of Canadian citizens were involved, Canada will be permitted to participate in the process, and Canadian air safety specialists will be present for the download of the data. However, under international air safety guidelines, Canada is not allowed to be involved directly in the investigation itself.
Canada's Transportation Safety Board confirmed that agency "has been invited to participate in the download of the recorders and will deploy a team of investigators who specialize in aircraft recorder download and analysis."

Canadian experts are entitled to visit the scene of the accident and to access relevant factual information approved for public release by Iran, as well as information on the progress of the investigation and a copy of the final report. (...)

They are not, however, allowed active participation in the air transportation safety investigation, TSB said in a statement.

As noted in a previous post above, the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic shut down international air travel, making it impractical for many of the interested countries to participate. As a result of this Canada requested that the investigation be delayed until conditions improved. This is now evidently taking place.
 

W21A

LE
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The Covid 19 missile not launched by Iran will be ultimately responsible.
 
Iranians investigators into the crash are laying the blame on the operators of the missile battery, who apparently loosed two missiles without getting permission from higher command.
Iran blames missile strike that downed Ukrainian airliner on bad communication, poor alignment
Iranian investigators are blaming a misaligned missile battery and miscommunication between soldiers and their commanders for the Revolutionary Guard shooting down a Ukrainian jetliner in January, killing 176 people — including 55 Canadians.

What appears to have happened was that the mobile missile battery had recently repositioned. This apparently caused problems with orientation, although the news report wasn't clear on those details. The battery were out of contact with their higher command, and decided to launch on their own authority.
The report said the surface-to-air missile battery that targeted the Boeing 737-800 had been relocated and was not properly reoriented.

Those manning the missile battery could not communicate with their command centre, they misidentified the civilian flight as a threat and opened fire twice without getting approval from ranking officials, the report said.

"If each had not arisen, the aircraft would not have been targeted," it said.

The first missile may have damaged the plane's radio equipment, while the second missile probably made a direct hit.
The plane had just taken off from Imam Khomeini International Airport when the first missile exploded, possibly damaging its radio equipment, the report said. The second missile likely directly struck the aircraft, as videos that night show the plane exploding into a ball of fire before crashing into a playground and farmland on the outskirts of Tehran.

Six people have been arrested in the incident.
The report put the blame entirely on the crew of the missile battery. Already, six people believed to be involved in the incident have been arrested, judiciary spokesperson Gholamhossein Esmaili reportedly said in June. He said at the time three had been released on bail while the other three remained held.

The plane's black box will be sent to France for analysis on the 20th of July.
Iran is to send the black box to France on July 20, where Ukrainian and French experts are expected to examine it, Iran's state-run IRNA news agency recently reported. Iranian officials did not have the equipment on hand to read data from the box.
 
Iranians investigators into the crash are laying the blame on the operators of the missile battery, who apparently loosed two missiles without getting permission from higher command.
Iran blames missile strike that downed Ukrainian airliner on bad communication, poor alignment


What appears to have happened was that the mobile missile battery had recently repositioned. This apparently caused problems with orientation, although the news report wasn't clear on those details. The battery were out of contact with their higher command, and decided to launch on their own authority.


The first missile may have damaged the plane's radio equipment, while the second missile probably made a direct hit.


Six people have been arrested in the incident.


The plane's black box will be sent to France for analysis on the 20th of July.

That seems to tie in exactly with my conjecture in post #591 of this thread. How very prescient of me.

All of the following is conjecture:

I can see how this scenario could easily develop. Although they probably have a fully integrated static Ground Based Air Defence (GBAD) system in Iran, they probably bolstered it with tactical units from the Iranian Armed Forces, fearing immediate US retaliation for their missile attacks. The static GBAD will be interconnected by a fairly good comms infrastructure, (fixed line, line of sight and radio connections) linked in to their air C2 system for more than adequate situational awareness. The tactical units would have been add-ons and almost certainly not fully integrated in those first few hours. In all probability they would have been reliant on their own less sophisticated organic sensors, with no real time access to the recognised tactical air picture. Additionally, they would have been warned that any unnecessary transmission could mean a fiery death on the wrong end of a HARM. Given a short briefing they would have been sent off to their sites with a warning to watch out for aircraft and cruise missiles of the Great Satan. The young, and probably keen to impress, Lieutenant in charge of the battery would have been on a hair trigger, eager not to let down the revolution by allowing the yankee devils to attack any targets of value. He, and his inexperienced crew, were ready, just waiting for the imperialists to come zooming over the nightime horizon. Then, suddenly, there it was. A big blip on his screen in airspace he had been told was empty of friendly aircraft and weapons free. Heading straight towards the IRGC base on the edge of town. Locate, identify, lock, FIRE! Whoosh, bang, ALLAHU AKBAR!

....


.....


....

Oh shit!
 
Iranians investigators into the crash are laying the blame on the operators of the missile battery, who apparently loosed two missiles without getting permission from higher command.
Iran blames missile strike that downed Ukrainian airliner on bad communication, poor alignment


What appears to have happened was that the mobile missile battery had recently repositioned. This apparently caused problems with orientation, although the news report wasn't clear on those details. The battery were out of contact with their higher command, and decided to launch on their own authority.


The first missile may have damaged the plane's radio equipment, while the second missile probably made a direct hit.


Six people have been arrested in the incident.


The plane's black box will be sent to France for analysis on the 20th of July.
People really don't get how tense it was out there at the time. The same time this was all going on we were all at sea at state 1 ready for it all to go very kinetic. Everyone thought trump would start bombing with the speeches he was giving out.

The Iranians IMO were pretty sure they would kill yanks with their missile strikes and that the great Satan would react accordingly. No wonder the missile battery crew where incredibly jumpy.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
I hope you got your usual fee for writing the press release for the Iranians.
Boll0cks! I wish I'd thought of that. Maybe they got the idea from my post and I should claim copyright fees.

"Dear Ayotollah,

I know things have been a little tough lately and you haven't heard from me in a while. However, where's my dosh you plagiarising git?

Yours,

GBS"
 
Iran have sent the black box from the crashed Ukrainian jet to France for analysis.
Iran sends downed Ukrainian passenger jet's black box to France for analysis
Iran has sent the black box of the Ukrainian passenger jet that its armed forces mistakenly shot down in January to France for reading, an Iranian semi-official news agency said Saturday.

France will begin reading the black boxes on Monday.
He said France will begin reading the flight recorders on Monday and praised the French government for its "very good cooperation with the Iranian delegation."

A team from Canada's Transportation Safety Board are on their way to Paris this weekend to observe the download on Monday.
An official from Canada's Transportation Safety Board told CBC News in a statement: "We are deploying a team this weekend to Paris and we will have more information on Monday once they are onsite."

Most of rest of the article is just a rehash of previous news.
 
The audio was downloaded from the Ukrainian plane's black boxes today in France. It's not known at this time if the data is usable.
Audio from Flight PS752's cockpit downloaded this morning, says TSB
Audio from the cockpit of Flight PS752 was successfully downloaded in France this morning, according to a top Canadian official, but it's still not clear if the data is salvageable.

(...) Fox said while there is data to analyze, observers aren't sure if the audio quality is even useable.

Air crash experts don't expect the data to tell us much.
Larry Vance, a former veteran TSB plane crash investigator, warned that the findings on these black boxes will likely be anticlimactic.

"If people think we're going to get a lot of answers for what happened based on these data recorders, I think they're going to be disappointed," Vance told CBC News. "I think it's going to be quite anticlimactic."

The data might show that the plane was functioning perfectly, and then it all just stops when the missile strikes and the recorders cut out. Ideally, the recorders might have captured a few seconds of the aftermath and sound of the pilots' reaction in the cockpit, he said.

"The interesting part will be when the first missile struck the airplane, did it disable the data recorders right away, or was there some time span when the electricity continued to flow through them and they continued to operate," Vance said.

Analysis of the data is expected to take several weeks.
Meanwhile, it could take weeks for the results to be interpreted and made public. Swedish officials have told citizens they are expecting an update in August, according to a letter obtained by CBC News.

"Once the process of downloading the data from the recorders has been completed, a rather extensive workload follows in order to analyze the thousands of parameters that the information contains," said a document from the Swedish Accident Authority dated July 13.

"I expect that part of the process to take two to three weeks."
 
The Canadian Transportation Safety Board said that the data from the black boxes from the crashed airliner in Iran has gone through a preliminary analysis in France. Apparently the data was readable.
Black box transcript confirms illegal interference with jet downed in Iran, says Ukraine

The Canadian Transportation Safety Board said on Thursday an international team examining the black boxes from the jet had completed a preliminary analysis of the data in France.

Ukraine have announced that it shows that there was "illegal interference with the plane". I know that everyone here was on tenterhooks waiting for this news.
"Grateful to all partners who helped bring this moment closer. Black boxes from #PS752 were read out and deciphered successfully. The transcript confirmed the fact of illegal interference with the plane," Yenin wrote on Twitter.

Iran of course have already admitted shooting down the plane and given an explanation of how this came about. At best the data from the black boxes may fill in some minor details, or possibly produce some recommendations with regards to operating procedures when operating commercial aircraft in a war zone.
 
Iran have announced that some data has been recovered form the black boxes in the Ukrainian airline flight which was shot down by missiles in Tehran.
Iran retrieves data, cockpit conversations from Ukraine Flight 752 black boxes
Iran has retrieved some data, including a portion of cockpit conversations, from the Ukrainian jetliner accidentally downed by Revolutionary Guard forces in January, killing all 176 people on board, an Iranian official said Sunday.

That's according to a report on the website of Iran's Civil Aviation Organization, which described the official's remarks as part of the final report that Tehran plans to issue on the shootdown of Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752.

Most of the story is just a re-hash of previous reports on this.

The data was actually extracted from the black boxes in France last month, and the Canadian Transportation Safety Board had said that a preliminary analysis was done then.

What actually seems to have happened now is that a summary of the contents of the voice and flight recorders has been published and is consistent with what was downloaded from the recorders in France. The investigation continues and this is not a final report.
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) has confirmed receipt of the report.

"This is not the final safety investigation report but rather a brief summary of the contents that were retrieved from the cockpit voice and flight data recorders last month in Paris and is consistent with information that TSB investigators received while attending the download of the recorders in France," said TSB chair Kathy Fox in a statement.

"The investigation is far from over, as there are still many key questions that need to be answered."

News reports have said that the plane was on the correct flight path at the time of the first explosion. After 19 seconds the black boxes stopped recording. The crew were in the cockpit and in control of the plane up to that point.
Later in the day, Iranian state TV quoted Zangeneh as saying the data showed the Ukrainian plane was on the right flight path. After 19 seconds of the first explosion, the communication system of the black boxes was cut, he said.

Planes carry two different flight recorder devices, called black boxes — the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.

"All three crew in the cockpit were controlling the flight until the very last," Zangeneh said.
 
Iran have allocated a compensation fund for the families of the people killed in the plane that was shot down in Tehran.
Iran allocates $150K US payments to families of Ukraine crash victims
Iran's cabinet has created a compensation fund to pay families of the 176 victims of a Ukrainian passenger plane that was shot down by Iranian forces outside Tehran last January, the president announced Wednesday.

At this point they have set the compensation value at $150,000 per victim.
Iran will pay $150,000 US for each victim, state TV reported without giving a timeline. The announcement comes as the families of victims prepare to mark the anniversary of the Jan. 8 crash and diplomats from nations that lost citizens push Iran for more co-operation on the investigation and compensation issues.

Iran have told Ukrainian authorities that this sum is based on international regulations.
"We have told our Ukrainian colleagues that international regulations are our basis."

I get the general impression that this is the starting point for negotiations rather than the final offer however. Most of the people killed were Iranian citizens, although many were also dual citizens. I suspect there will be much future argument over which country, Iran or another (particularly Canada) takes precedence in representing the interests of dual citizens.


Most of the rest of the story is about families of victims living in the West looking for some sort of revenge or retribution, and pressing foreign governments to punish Iran in some way, plus also statements from Canada about wanting more details about what happened.
 

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