Ukrainian 737 crashes in Iran

Nick Dipples

War Hero
'Reports', eh?
You'll have a link to those of course?

Wait, how can they 'obviously plan' and yet be 'surprised'?
Tempting as it is to tell you to Google it yourself... It was very widely reported.

By late Thursday, the president had gone for the extreme option. Top Pentagon officials were stunned.
 
I do hope before all this is over, He and His minions end up on the business end of one of the telescopic cranes they have hung children from.
Outwardly he is referred to as the Ayatollah or the supreme leader. My Iranian friends tell me that Iranians commonly refer to him as "the dictator".
I hope that any transition from the corrupt regime/dictatorship will be with as little bloodshed as possible.
 
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As at @Drlligaf says, I’m minded to this being a possible end to the regime. The photo of the protesters shows young, apparently well to do citizens openly flouting dress codes and both males a females seem to be adopting western dress?

The regime is rooted in anti western dogma.

There seems to be a bit of a division between the older and younger generation in dress, outlook etc with the older still basking in the glories of the revolution, even clinging to it whereas the younger are not fussed. I see a bit of a parallel with NI in the older still very much sectarian in outlook, the younger being uninterested?
The urban middle classes have been followed Western trends and fashions for many decades, back long before the revolution. Arguably this goes back to at least the early 20th century, when the Persian (as it was known then) government tried and failed to do a modernisation of the country along the lines of post-imperial Turkey.

However just like in Turkey, the mass of peasantry and the urban poor are less on side with that, and in Iran the government's support rests with the mass of the poor, not with the relatively well off middle classes.

I think Trump has drawn a hand with 5 aces in it, I don’t suppose for one moment he or anyone else imagined this chain of events. Where he has seemingly played those 5 aces well is in keeping his mouth largely shut and letting the Iranians dig their own hole. I hope he can continue to do that because it will pull the rug out from under a great many of his critics globally.
The Americans have for once played their hand fairly well in this case. If they keep quiet and avoid attracting attention to themselves the Iranian government will be left to stew in their own juices on this one instead of being able to whip up the public against a foreign enemy.

As an aside, “ethnic garb” Trudeau has come out of his box fighting talk wise. Makes him look a bit silly.
Trudeau has to take a fairly strong line on this one. A lot of the public in Canada are quite concerned over this loss of life of not only Canadian citizens, but also a fair number of Iranian students (including ones studying advanced degrees) who from press reports seem to have been quite well regarded at their universities. Most of the people on that plane were on their way to Canada either to return home or to attend university.

He can't afford to drop the ball on this one, as he's in a minority government. The opposition are making much noise about him not being "firm enough with Iran". He is trying to balance this political pressure with the reality of having to actually work with the Iranian government to get anything done with respect to repatriating bodies and investigating the crash (yes we know it was shot down with a missile, but there still has to be an investigation into how that happened). There is in fact some speculation that this incident has come at a very bad time for his government as well, because they were supposed to be spending this time preparing for the new session of parliament but instead have been consumed by this crisis.

If we look past the next few days and weeks, there's also the Conservative Party leadership race coming up. One of the leading candidates is expected to be Peter MacKay, whom anyone with any familiarity with Canadian politics will recognise immediately. His wife is Nazanin Afshin-Jam, a very tasty looking woman (former Miss Canada) who was born in Tehran, came to Canada as a child with her parents, and prior to marrying MacKay in 2012 was a political activist focused on causing grief for the government in Iran. It was reported in the press at the time that she was the one who was the primary reason why Canada broke off diplomatic relations with Iran in 2012. Apparently she was going around to various Conservative Party riding associations making noises against the Iranian government which were being very well received by the local membership. Harper was feeling the heat from his party (MacKay was the most serious threat to his leadership at the time), and so was forced to make a show of doing something (there were several other things going on at the same time, such as the UK embassy being sacked, but the former was what forced his hand).

Should MacKay win the leadership, then I imagine his activist wife will be filling his ear about "doing something" about Iran, and anybody in the PMO at this moment will no doubt have that potential future problem in mind and wanting to be sure to not give anyone any political ammunition.

There is a very large Iranian community in Canada, reportedly the second largest outside Iran. They are split into two political camps. There are the ones who came to Canada in the period after the revolution, as well as their children in many cases, and there are the ones who came to Canada after the new government there had been well established in power for some time. The former have not forgotten or forgiven the revolution and wish to reverse it. The latter have accepted it as established fact, and having more current family ties in Iran are more concerned about maintaining their ability to visit relatives back in Iran for weddings, family visits with parents and grandparents, and the like.

The current government in Ottawa had promised prior to the 2015 to re-establish diplomatic relations with Iran in order to make it easier to secure visas and provide consular support for the latter group. However, they never followed through on that. There is current political debate in Canada over whether this latest incident on the one hand proves that we shouldn't because the Iranian government are bad, versus on the other hand that it proves that we should, because we don't have consular presence to deal with supporting families on issues such as repatriating bodies. The government itself hasn't been discussing this to any significant degree, but it is in the press, to a large extent as a re-iteration of a long standing debate.
 
I would love to visit Iran. The people there are totally different to what we westerners are led to belive they are like.
And knowing a few people who were involved in the Ipod kidnapping - they were treated VERY well also. Not at all like The \Sun or DM would have you believe.
 

Slime

LE
Tempting as it is to tell you to Google it yourself... It was very widely reported.



Have a ’funny’ for that.

It’s a while since I’ve seen someone mention ‘reports’ and DoD or MoD, then back that up with press articles :)
 
I would love to visit Iran. The people there are totally different to what we westerners are led to belive they are like.
And knowing a few people who were involved in the Ipod kidnapping - they were treated VERY well also. Not at all like The \Sun or DM would have you believe.
I wish I could visit there but I wouldn't dare.
 

Slime

LE
I would love to visit Iran. The people there are totally different to what we westerners are led to belive they are like.
And knowing a few people who were involved in the Ipod kidnapping - they were treated VERY well also. Not at all like The \Sun or DM would have you believe.
For the sake of asking, have you seen any of the TV programmes or TV interviews from those involved?
 
Your thought.
The CIA's task...… ;)
Please leave the CIA out of it. I know it's a long time ago, but the mere suggestion raises memories of the Bay of Pigs fiasco. In fact leave all US involvement out of it. Let the Iranians sort out Iran, that way the regime gets offed and the US doesn't get its hands dirty and nobody can blame them. Like, like, like all round.
Any other world problems for me to sort? My fees are modest.
 
I wish I could visit there but I wouldn't dare.
Apparently there is a jewish segment of the iranian population. Seems wierd but while they are quite happy to have Jews in their own population they have a major sh1tty on against Israel.
 
I wish I could visit there but I wouldn't dare.
I have a photographer friend who seems to get well treated whenever he visits Iran. Also have a couple of Iranian friends in Europe, and they appear no different to the average Westerner in my experience.
 
All the Iranians I know despise/hate/loathe the regime. That doesn't mean they don't feel nationalistic and cultural pride as Iranians.
Their mistrust of the West is understandable considering the USA and UK willfully sabotaged their nascent democracy in the 1950's, just for cheap oil.
On the other hand, beyond all the demos and stuff you see on TV, has anybody here met an Iranian that wasn't friendly, hospitable and interested in the rest of the world?
Met a lot in Dubai and all lovely, friendly people. They never said it out loud but they think their government/rulers are fruitloops.
 
Meanwhile back at the ranch, where's Maple? I haven't scanned all the entries on this thread but I would have thought that being ex air defence he would be in a good position to add something.
 
Tempting as it is to tell you to Google it yourself... It was very widely reported.



Riiiight.

As 'proof' you offer up an op ed from a decidedly liberal newspaper that has no love for the Republican party and the best it can come up with is 'top officials'.

And 'stunned' top officials at that.

Guess it must be true . . .
 
Apparently there is a jewish segment of the iranian population. Seems wierd but while they are quite happy to have Jews in their own population they have a major sh1tty on against Israel.
Yes that is quite correct. The Jewish people have a special relationship with the Persians since ancient times.
I have yet to encounter the slightest animosity on the part of Israelis towards Iran, except towards its corrupt, batshit crazy regime.
Incidentally, the first and main public hospital in Tehran was founded by Jews and AFAIK is still referred to as the Jewish hospital.
Iran's definitive Persian-English dictionary was compiled by a Jew.
Iran even has a special war memorial for Jewish soldiers that fought in the Iran-Iraq war....

This article gives a pretty good overview of that peculiar situation:
 
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I would love to visit Iran. The people there are totally different to what we westerners are led to belive they are like.
And knowing a few people who were involved in the Ipod kidnapping - they were treated VERY well also. Not at all like The \Sun or DM would have you believe.
You only have to see the full episode of Bourdain's about Iran to see how nice most of the normal people are....


RIP Bourdain...miss the dude.
 

Nick Dipples

War Hero
Riiiight.

As 'proof' you offer up an op ed from a decidedly liberal newspaper that has no love for the Republican party and the best it can come up with is 'top officials'.

And 'stunned' top officials at that.

Guess it must be true . . .
Who said anything about proof? I said it was reported; that's a report, by reporters.

There's no point getting all upset because you were wrong.
 

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