Ukraine to join Nato

#1
updated 5:27 a.m. ET, Tues., April. 1, 2008

KIEV, Ukraine - President Bush said Tuesday he will work "as hard as I can" to help Ukraine join NATO and declared that Russia will not be able to veto former Soviet states joining the transatlantic military alliance.

"Your nation has made a bold decision and the United States strongly supports your request," Bush told Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko after talks at the Presidential Secretariat here.

Bush praised Ukraine's democratic and military reforms, and noted that Ukraine "is the only non-NATO nation supporting every NATO mission."
Be interesting to see how Russia responds to this. They've been quite uppity since getting their "oil price muscles". If Ukraine joins nato, that has to be a concern for Russia as I'm sure others will want to follow suit.


Oops- Link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23894165
 
#3
They've got oil. The US will square the rest away.
 
#6
ghost_us said:
updated 5:27 a.m. ET, Tues., April. 1, 2008

KIEV, Ukraine - President Bush said Tuesday he will work "as hard as I can" to help Ukraine join NATO and declared that Russia will not be able to veto former Soviet states joining the transatlantic military alliance.

"Your nation has made a bold decision and the United States strongly supports your request," Bush told Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko after talks at the Presidential Secretariat here.

Bush praised Ukraine's democratic and military reforms, and noted that Ukraine "is the only non-NATO nation supporting every NATO mission."
Be interesting to see how Russia responds to this. They've been quite uppity since getting their "oil price muscles". If Ukraine joins nato, that has to be a concern for Russia as I'm sure others will want to follow suit.


Oops- Link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23894165
Russia could just bite the bullet and join herself,she may as well considering a vast swathe of ex Pact nations already have.
 
#7
Random_Task said:
ghost_us said:
updated 5:27 a.m. ET, Tues., April. 1, 2008

KIEV, Ukraine - President Bush said Tuesday he will work "as hard as I can" to help Ukraine join NATO and declared that Russia will not be able to veto former Soviet states joining the transatlantic military alliance.

"Your nation has made a bold decision and the United States strongly supports your request," Bush told Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko after talks at the Presidential Secretariat here.

Bush praised Ukraine's democratic and military reforms, and noted that Ukraine "is the only non-NATO nation supporting every NATO mission."
Be interesting to see how Russia responds to this. They've been quite uppity since getting their "oil price muscles". If Ukraine joins nato, that has to be a concern for Russia as I'm sure others will want to follow suit.


Oops- Link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23894165
Russia could just bite the bullet and join herself,she may as well considering a vast swathe of ex Pact nations already have.
Didn't Stalin or Kruschev try that one? (Largely as a p1ss take)
 
#8
Tax_Tw-t said:
Random_Task said:
ghost_us said:
updated 5:27 a.m. ET, Tues., April. 1, 2008

KIEV, Ukraine - President Bush said Tuesday he will work "as hard as I can" to help Ukraine join NATO and declared that Russia will not be able to veto former Soviet states joining the transatlantic military alliance.

"Your nation has made a bold decision and the United States strongly supports your request," Bush told Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko after talks at the Presidential Secretariat here.

Bush praised Ukraine's democratic and military reforms, and noted that Ukraine "is the only non-NATO nation supporting every NATO mission."
Be interesting to see how Russia responds to this. They've been quite uppity since getting their "oil price muscles". If Ukraine joins nato, that has to be a concern for Russia as I'm sure others will want to follow suit.


Oops- Link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23894165
Russia could just bite the bullet and join herself,she may as well considering a vast swathe of ex Pact nations already have.
Didn't Stalin or Kruschev try that one? (Largely as a p1ss take)
Yes I think someone did. I think it was mainly because everyone was saying "NATO isnt there just to defend again the Soviet Union, its for lots of things"

So the Soviets called our bluff lol
 
#9
Random_Task said:
ghost_us said:
updated 5:27 a.m. ET, Tues., April. 1, 2008

KIEV, Ukraine - President Bush said Tuesday he will work "as hard as I can" to help Ukraine join NATO and declared that Russia will not be able to veto former Soviet states joining the transatlantic military alliance.

"Your nation has made a bold decision and the United States strongly supports your request," Bush told Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko after talks at the Presidential Secretariat here.

Bush praised Ukraine's democratic and military reforms, and noted that Ukraine "is the only non-NATO nation supporting every NATO mission."
Be interesting to see how Russia responds to this. They've been quite uppity since getting their "oil price muscles". If Ukraine joins nato, that has to be a concern for Russia as I'm sure others will want to follow suit.


Oops- Link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23894165
Russia could just bite the bullet and join herself,she may as well considering a vast swathe of ex Pact nations already have.
Do you think they would make it? Seeing as how naughty they've been lately?
 
#10
If Russia is no threat to Ukraine then why would their joining NATO bother them? Or is Russia pi$$ed they won't then be able to bully their nieghbours any more. :roll:
 
#11
There is however a little problem with Ukraine's membership in NATO. Strong majority of Ukrainians don't want to join.
 
#13
KGB_resident said:
There is however a little problem with Ukraine's membership in NATO. Strong majority of Ukrainians don't want to join.
And the majority of Ukrainians wanted to join the WP did they? :wink:
 
#15
Domovoy said:
http://novosti.dn.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10332&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

That sums up the feelings of the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians (even in the West of Ukraine).
Thats the trouble - we just can't understand Eastern Europeans :wink:
 
#16
Tax_Tw-t said:
KGB_resident said:
There is however a little problem with Ukraine's membership in NATO. Strong majority of Ukrainians don't want to join.
And the majority of Ukrainians wanted to join the WP did they? :wink:
The Ukrainians want rich, prosperous life. Of course they want to join the EU. Those who agree to join NATO (at least many of them) regard NATO as a step on the road to the EU.
 
#17
KGB_resident said:
Tax_Tw-t said:
KGB_resident said:
There is however a little problem with Ukraine's membership in NATO. Strong majority of Ukrainians don't want to join.
And the majority of Ukrainians wanted to join the WP did they? :wink:
The Ukrainians want rich, prosperous life. Of course they want to join the EU. Those who agree to join NATO (at least many of them) regard NATO as a step on the road to the EU.
As do we all.
I find it hard from here to see Russia's problems with anyone else joining NATO - the idea that NATO would first-strike attack Russia is laughable (to us).
If it's to do with the economic influence over their neighbours should they join the EU then perhaps Russia should step back from the 'strongman' tactics e.g. gas cut-offs and use the carrot as well as the stick.
 
#18
Tax_Tw-t said:
KGB_resident said:
Tax_Tw-t said:
KGB_resident said:
There is however a little problem with Ukraine's membership in NATO. Strong majority of Ukrainians don't want to join.
And the majority of Ukrainians wanted to join the WP did they? :wink:
The Ukrainians want rich, prosperous life. Of course they want to join the EU. Those who agree to join NATO (at least many of them) regard NATO as a step on the road to the EU.
As do we all.
I find it hard from here to see Russia's problems with anyone else joining NATO - the idea that NATO would first-strike attack Russia is laughable (to us).
But it is not so laughable for the Russians. Napoleon proposed the tsar Alexander I his friendship, Hitler signed non-agression pact. We all know how it ended.

As for bombings then who could predict bombings of Belgrade 20 tear ago? And who would swear than Minsk (the capital of Belarus) will never be bombed.

NATO clearly showed that it is able to ignore agreements and treaties signed by its members (Helsinki 1975 act for examle). Gorbachev received promisses that NATO would not expand eastward. And where are these promisses? NATO is not trustworthly.

NATO is much stronger from military point of view than Russia and main NATO countries demonstrated many times that they are ready for war and even forged cause could be used.

So NATO is real military threat to Russia that must be addressed.

Tax_Tw-t said:
If it's to do with the economic influence over their neighbours should they join the EU then perhaps Russia should step back from the 'strongman' tactics e.g. gas cut-offs and use the carrot as well as the stick.
I support an idea of Ukrainian membership in the EU. It would be good for our Ukrainian brothers. Also it would make secure Russian gas supplies to Europe because Ukraine would have to follow EU regulations.
 
#19
Tax_Tw-t said:
KGB_resident said:
Tax_Tw-t said:
KGB_resident said:
There is however a little problem with Ukraine's membership in NATO. Strong majority of Ukrainians don't want to join.
And the majority of Ukrainians wanted to join the WP did they? :wink:
The Ukrainians want rich, prosperous life. Of course they want to join the EU. Those who agree to join NATO (at least many of them) regard NATO as a step on the road to the EU.
As do we all.
I find it hard from here to see Russia's problems with anyone else joining NATO - the idea that NATO would first-strike attack Russia is laughable (to us).
If it's to do with the economic influence over their neighbours should they join the EU then perhaps Russia should step back from the 'strongman' tactics e.g. gas cut-offs and use the carrot as well as the stick.
I'll repeat my post from "Kosovo" thread:

bodie wrote:

just wondering how much oil and gas reserves are in that general area??? quite a lot i should imagine... US will be in there soon to "help stabilise" the place

...[/quote]



This is old news, but still makes an interesting reading:
""Here we are in an election year and Mr. Dick [Cheney] is our Republican nominee for vice president. He used to sit on the Oil Advisory Board of Kazakhstan and out of that nation has surfaced quite a scandal and our Major Media just cannot seem to get around to telling us 'mushroom Americans' about it. Mobil Oil (now ExxonMobil), Texaco, (now Chevron / Condoleezza [Rice] / Texaco), Amoco, (now BP Amoco) and Phillips Petroleum (from the same place former neocon CIA Director James Woolsey is from), have all been implicated in a sweeping bribery scandal in Kazakhstan, regarding oil and gas rights in that nation. Apparently those bribes started during the period of time that Mr. Dick was sitting on that Kazakhstan Oil Advisory Board, and that advisory board was deciding who was 'favored' to get those oil and gas deals..." www.btinternet.com/~nl...VPutin.htm

Back to your remark. Ukraine doesn't have any considerable quantities of oil or gas, but it is a major transit country for Eastern gas and oil to Western Europe. No wonder Russia is moving fast in building alternative lines while Baltic countries and Poland (Trojan donkeys of EU) are opposing such move.
Besides, Eastern Ukraine and Crimea is yet another arm with which US can give Russia a strong brotherly embrace.
 
#20
The major problem for the Russians here is that the named areas, to be blunt, don't like them. Not one if these countries, Poland, the whole Baltic States, the Urkraine have one single reason to think anything nice of the Former USSR/ Modern Russia.

I doubt strongly the US has the wit to plan such a long term game, rather more it's case of said States not wanting anything to do with Russia
 

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