UK tries to offload Typhoon fighters

#1
Well, we have known for a while that Tranche 3 was going to cost us dear. MoD is trawling the world, trying to find someone to take them off our hands.

FT Article here

Good luck to them. All the more money to spend on a meaningful project if they succeed. That is, unless the Treasury simply takes every penny back with a whoop of joy and a sigh of relief,,,,,,
 
#3
i_t_c - the reason they're trying to do this is that Broone, Darling and Browne won't provide the money to cover the purchase. Funding won't be diverted into anything else for any of the three services since there isn't any money to divert; this is a bit of attempting to reduce a black hole in the defence budget.

I also suspect that the story is a bit more complicated, since the Typhoon contract as it once stood covered the prospect of partner nations attempting to offload aircraft to would-be export customers - doing this reduced the potential number of aircraft that would be built for export (and despite the appearance of JSF, there are a number of nations that are interested in the older aircraft).

There have been a variety of rumours suggesting that the offloading of aircraft may involve Tranche 2 airframes, or selling on some, but not all, of Tranche 3 - but I can't help thinking that some Eurofighter GMbH lawyers may be waving a contract at the MoD before too long; certainly the company would be extremely annoyed if the Japanese say 'We want 50' only to discover that rather than gaining the cash from this the money goes into MoD coffers.

A further problem is that if the whole Tranche is binned, the RAF will be able to meet the UK and Falklands AD commitment or provision of air support to the Army but not both in the 2014-2018/20 timeframe as GR4s are retired as they run out of hours and Harriers have to have their fuselages fixed (thus reducing the number on hand), so there would seem to be a need to buy at least some of them.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of a number of programmes which are being reviewed - second CVF, Astute, FRES, FLynx and Nimrod MRA4 being among them - but which haven't made their way into the press yet.
 
#4
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything) and whilst Brown is busy selling off whats left of the family silver (having given everything else way on the cheap including the family gold) the last thing we can afford to loose is the effective air defense of this country. Just like the Royal Navy needs enough ships to defend our shores.
If we as a country do not have enough money for defence spending then its time we prioritised.
What fooking use is it bringing democracy and freedom (I use the terms loosely) to Iraq and Afghanistan if it costs us the ability to defend Britain? If we only have enough cash to go so far then we must spend it ensuring the defence of our own country, or are we to entrust that to support from the French and Germans?
 
#5
we don't need to defend this country, it's not like our historic enemies are rearming and exerting thier influence militarily.
[cough]russia[/cough]
 
#6
Archimedes said:
i_t_c - the reason they're trying to do this is that Broone, Darling and Browne won't provide the money to cover the purchase. ...
... because Broon/Darling/Browne plc (public liability cnuts) have spent the family paypacket on looking after the shareholders of a failed bank, among their other financial fiascos!
 
#7
tommyhutch said:
jagman said:
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything)
Hmmm, seems to me most our potential enemies either have no aircraft to shoot down or would have the capability to strike the airfields and negate the 232 Typhoons anyway.
Non of those that out enemies this year anyway.
So we should bin Typhoon (or large quantities of them) on the basis that we don't plan on having any enemies with an Air Force of their own in the near future?
Who our potential enemies are can change far faster than we can build a fleet of shiney new aircraft. We do not have the luxury of gambling that we won't need to defend Britain or asking any of those potential enemies to wait a year or two while we bring our defences back up to scratch.
 
#8
tommyhutch said:
jagman said:
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything)
Hmmm, seems to me most our potential enemies either have no aircraft to shoot down or would have the capability to strike the airfields and negate the 232 Typhoons anyway.
And who knows what situation we will be in within the next decade. 20 years ago the worry was ivan trundling across europe, 10 years ago it was peacekeeping. Now its war against an insurgency, who knows where we will be in the next ten outside afgan; China, Russia and Iran are not our friends and have big boy toys to play with.
 
#9
tommyhutch said:
jagman said:
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything)
Hmmm, seems to me most our potential enemies either have no aircraft to shoot down or would have the capability to strike the airfields and negate the 232 Typhoons anyway.
You've clearly not been following the news recently. :roll:
 
#10
Mr_Deputy said:
but they are willing to spend serious money on Trident no?
I think you'll find, as with all things liarbour, that they take a position without first looking at all the facts, then fire fight the problems as they go along. Look at the state of the country for evidence, any thing they touch fcuks up. I can't think of a single thing this bunch have done correctly since they gained power.
 
#11
I'll have a couple of them. They can go next to my 3 apaches, the stack of EM-2s, the 25 boxes of DMS boots, those clansman headsets, the 200 pairs of long johns, headovers and the twenty gallons of "ACME Yummy Insect Jelly Food" that was relabelled as "Insect Repellant".
 
#12
jagman said:
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything) and whilst Brown is busy selling off whats left of the family silver (having given everything else way on the cheap including the family gold) the last thing we can afford to loose is the effective air defense of this country. Just like the Royal Navy needs enough ships to defend our shores.
If we as a country do not have enough money for defence spending then its time we prioritised.
What fooking use is it bringing democracy and freedom (I use the terms loosely) to Iraq and Afghanistan if it costs us the ability to defend Britain? If we only have enough cash to go so far then we must spend it ensuring the defence of our own country, or are we to entrust that to support from the French and Germans?

Rubbish.
 
#15
Jelly_Fish said:
jagman said:
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything) and whilst Brown is busy selling off whats left of the family silver (having given everything else way on the cheap including the family gold) the last thing we can afford to loose is the effective air defense of this country. Just like the Royal Navy needs enough ships to defend our shores.
If we as a country do not have enough money for defence spending then its time we prioritised.
What fooking use is it bringing democracy and freedom (I use the terms loosely) to Iraq and Afghanistan if it costs us the ability to defend Britain? If we only have enough cash to go so far then we must spend it ensuring the defence of our own country, or are we to entrust that to support from the French and Germans?

Rubbish.
Yes you are absolutely right, you're talking rubbish. Or would you care to elaborate? If not shut up.
 
#16
Me and the lads at work have had a whip round and can stretch to £17.13 and a £2.00 McDonalds voucher. Is that enough for a matching pair? Thought we would get a 50 year head start on everyone else and use them as Sentinels for our workshop.

P-T
 
#17
tommyhutch said:
Ord_Sgt said:
tommyhutch said:
jagman said:
The RAF actually do need these aircraft.
Defence of Britain is more important than anything else (yes anything)
Hmmm, seems to me most our potential enemies either have no aircraft to shoot down or would have the capability to strike the airfields and negate the 232 Typhoons anyway.
You've clearly not been following the news recently. :roll:
Whatever is in the news doesn't change the fact that an aircraft that needs a purpose-built runway to get into the air isn't going to be operating for very long in a full scale conflict.
So what do you suggest most of the rest of the world do with all those obsolete jets, expecially all those sh1t F22s the spams have just bought?

If you don't think through what you are saying then don't say anything.
 
#18
the runway issue is significant, only because the rate at which labour is selling them off for housing development, the RAF will not have (m)any to fly from.
 
#19
All Eurofighters are supposed to be multi-role but:

Tranche 1 (F2) is mainly air superiority but had some ground attack capability. It has replaced Tornado F3 & Jaguar.

Tranche 2 can carry further ground attack weapons & the Meteor BVR AAM. All Tranche 1s are to be upgraded to this standard.

At the moment it is cleared for (or will be cleared for): Sidewinder, ASRAAM, AMRAAM, IRIS-T, Meteor, Harpoon, HARM, ALARM, Storm Shadow, Brimstone, Taurus, Pengiun, Paveway 2/3/Enhanced, JDAM, laser designators, dumb bombs, cluster bombs, rocket pods, recce pods & tank pods.

The radar can track targets on land/sea/air, it has MTI, mapping/terrain following/avoidance capability. Excellent ESM capabilities. It is cheaper than JSF. Its radar cross section is smaller than Tornado but bigger than JSF.

The Tranche 3 is to have full air-to-ground capability including improved radar.

I'd argue that if the RAF could replace all the following aircraft with the Eurofighter (be it improved Tranche 2 or Tranche 3) without purchasing the JSF (in some ways Eurofighter is more capable) if it was to purchase more 2 seaters, all that is missing is the stealth capabilities:

Tornado GR4
Tornado GR4A - if recce capabilities were improved
Jaguar G3 (already replaced)
Jaguar G3A (already replaced)
Tornado F3 (already replaced?)

It would leave to massive training & logistics savings, equal (or close to) capability.

The only question would be if Harrier could be replaced by Eurofighter?
 
#20
The simple answer is vertical take off jets have to compromise on something for that capability. In the harriers case its either fuel or payload. VSTOL is not the super answer to all things flying some seem to think it is.

Jets that fly off a runway don't need to carry that extra capability and are generally better jets. So a compromise has to be had and the majority of modern fast jets fly off runways. Not all airfields will be destroyed on day one anyway, the bad guys have got to fight through those 232 Typhoons to get to there first. Or did you assume all the RAF were still in the hotel ;)
 

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