UK Transport Crisis?

We've managed to slip through the cracks by the look at it they've gone back to try and see what we actually are

We're not food production and are Logistics not essential Transport - Define essential transport

We supply supermarkets and shops.


Like everything that is reaction on the hoof, its a bit vague. They'll work it out I guess.

Like hundreds of thousands of people, the pandemic hasn't prevented me having to turn up to work
 
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syrup

LE
I remember that. Circa ‘93 anyone passing their test at Leconfield in a Cat C (yellow peril) then had to do fams, which included car even if you already had your B licence.

When I joined in 87 regardless if you had your car licence or not we all sat the car test
Done in Cardiff with civvie examiners.
We were class A drivers so all had to learn to drive the Forces way

Mine was

Car test - passed
Load and restraint course - passed
HGV Class 3 - passed and posted on completion - Some guys got posted on completion of their car test and returned for Class 3

1989
Class 2

1996
Class 1

I got my Class 2 on posting to Ascension but it held me back for Class 1
I had a class 1 course planned but a senior rank demanded it and got it instead of me - idiot then failed it and wasted it.

We got dispensation to drive Class 1 during Granby
 

RTU'd

LE
I went out in a van today, pulled up to get some fuel on the M5.
BP station and they were putting covers on most of the pumps, so I asked the guy who was doing it what's the score.
He said fuel delivery drivers are quitting and 11 went in one day
All to do with money & shifts.
Some drivers went on less hours less pay last year during lockdown.
Now drivers hours up, but pay staying the same, so drivers go elsewhere on more money.
 
Years ago the Army used to do thing called dual teat. A new and completely unqualified driver would have 2 days in a car, then, without getting a cat B would go onto a class 3 truck, and when ready do a test in that, which at the time gave them the car and the class 3 licence all in one go.

It seems to me that this is one of those vested interest debates. The test is a fixed standard, and, as many have pointed out, the re learning does not start till afterwards. Thus the standard is the standard, and the route to getters is of no consequence among as the standard is maintained.
That's how I hot my licence. Landed in Germany in late 84 at 4 ADSR. Shortage of HGV drivers so of I went. 2 mornings in a SWB landrover with a full screw RCT bod from the MTO tutoring, then into a class 3 Bedford for a couple of weeks before test from the RCT MTO OIC.

Passed, first thing I drove? an army mini, don't know who was more scared, me or my passenger:p
 

Truxx

LE
That's how I hot my licence. Landed in Germany in late 84 at 4 ADSR. Shortage of HGV drivers so of I went. 2 mornings in a SWB landrover with a full screw RCT bod from the MTO tutoring, then into a class 3 Bedford for a couple of weeks before test from the RCT MTO OIC.

Passed, first thing I drove? an army mini, don't know who was more scared, me or my passenger:p
What does not kill you makes you stronger.

An expression that drained the colour out of the H&S bloke's face when I said that to him last time he visited (over 2 years ago now thanks to covid and we seem somehow to have managed without killing or maiming anyone)
 

stuskimac

Old-Salt
I get you, but I don't think that should prevent a Class 1 Direct Access system, on balance I'm quit in favour of it

I would like to see better training allround, but I don't see any practical reason why drivers shouldn't be able to be trained for Class1 straight away
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I was aware Direct access coarses have been around for years anyway. These coarses are available as a 2 week coarse that you do your C licence week 1 & C+E licence week 2 & following a successful pass you could potentially be out the following week driving artics legally? So if this is true & its happening anyway I don't see a problem either.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I was aware Direct access coarses have been around for years anyway. These coarses are available as a 2 week coarse that you do your C licence week 1 & C+E licence week 2 & following a successful pass you could potentially be out the following week driving artics legally? So if this is true & its happening anyway I don't see a problem either.

Don't know to be honest

If it is as you describe then there is no tangible benefit to doing two tests under those circumstances.
 
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The company I work for in S Wales will do a 20 hour cause for Cat C followed as soon as possible by another 20 hours for C+E as soon as your CAT C license is returned with the automatic C+E provisional attached.

Generally that's about 5 days but I gather the DVLA are on some kind of industrial action so it's taking much longer at present.

Waiting list for any kind of driving course now is about 8 weeks at present.
 

syrup

LE
Sensibly, a large goods vehicle licence should apply to drivers of vehicles carrying goods. Is a bin wagon a goods vehicle?


I would imagine under the construction and use regulations it would be

It's not just he drivers that are affected

Work mates brother works as a Stonemason for York Council they've been moved to the bins due to the shortage of operators
 
I would imagine under the construction and use regulations it would be

It's not just he drivers that are affected

Work mates brother works as a Stonemason for York Council they've been moved to the bins due to the shortage of operators
I'm suggesting a change in the legalities of vehicle and driver licensing: if the vehicle isn't designed, or used, for carrying goods for sale, then the driver shouldn't need a lgv licence, in the same way as quarry plant dumptrucks, for example.
 
Sensibly, a large goods vehicle licence should apply to drivers of vehicles carrying goods. Is a bin wagon a goods vehicle?


Yup its a truck

1627135966263.png
 

Boris_Johnson

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
It's been interesting reading the various reactions on social media. There's a lot of disgruntled remainers blaming Brexit full stop.

I'm not sure it's as simple as that.

I've been following a couple of HGV drivers who "vlog" on YouTube, and it seems that wages simply haven't increased in line with the cost of living. Haulage firms have therefore been able to get away with offering peanuts for the latest "poorer" country to join the EU.

Why else would it be, that most of the drivers were from the Czech Republic and Poland back in 2004, and in 2009 they were mainly Latvian and Lithuanian, then in 2015 they were mainly Romanian...?

Haulage firms (along with other areas of industry such as fruit picking, hospitality etc) have had this cheap overseas labour belt fed over the the last 15-20 years and what business wouldn't capitalise on such an opportunity to increase their profit margins?

Rather than simply cause the problem, I'd say it would be more accurate that Brexit has *exposed* the problem.

Haulage firms will now have to bump their wages up significantly, in order to be where they would have been had they increased them in line with inflation - a "wage shock" if you like.

Of course, the costs will simply be passed on to the consumer and the various haulage MDs will be silently chuckling to themselves while everyone blames Brexit instead of pointing the finger at them.

Just my thoughts. @jagman2 keen to hear your take on this?
 
It's been interesting reading the various reactions on social media. There's a lot of disgruntled remainers blaming Brexit full stop.

I'm not sure it's as simple as that.

I've been following a couple of HGV drivers who "vlog" on YouTube, and it seems that wages simply haven't increased in line with the cost of living. Haulage firms have therefore been able to get away with offering peanuts for the latest "poorer" country to join the EU.

Why else would it be, that most of the drivers were from the Czech Republic and Poland back in 2004, and in 2009 they were mainly Latvian and Lithuanian, then in 2015 they were mainly Romanian...?

Haulage firms (along with other areas of industry such as fruit picking, hospitality etc) have had this cheap overseas labour belt fed over the the last 15-20 years and what business wouldn't capitalise on such an opportunity to increase their profit margins?

Rather than simply cause the problem, I'd say it would be more accurate that Brexit has *exposed* the problem.

Haulage firms will now have to bump their wages up significantly, in order to be where they would have been had they increased them in line with inflation - a "wage shock" if you like.

Of course, the costs will simply be passed on to the consumer and the various haulage MDs will be silently chuckling to themselves while everyone blames Brexit instead of pointing the finger at them.

Just my thoughts. @jagman2 keen to hear your take on this?


It is Brexit related, but it is industry created.

You are absolutely correct, cheap imported labour has been used to keep wages artificially low for over a decade. The big employers have used this as an oppurtunity to run a price war and a race to the bottom.

The result is an absolute reliance on that cheap imprted labour which has in turn reduced the attractiveness of HGV driving in Britain.

It is all low wage company's, not just hauliers, that are having to change their game.
We are a company of around 400 employees and all of them are getting or had a substantial payrise. We have a declared intention of keeping our pay above the competition.
We aren't a haulier though, we are a manufacturer that deliver our own products nationwide (pretty much)

We know that we have to pay a fair rate and despite Coronavirus we are doing so. and now declare ourselves to be a "real living wage employer"
Most traditionally low wage employers are rasping tha the world has changed and demand for employees is high

What the remainers must now accept, whether they like it or not, is that the cheap imported labour model is gone forever. I applaud it. It is causing me difficulties recruiting because demand is very high and will remain so for at least a year, probably two.

it isn't just Brexit, it's the IR35 closing of a tax loophole and its very poor working conditions.

Brexit is part of it (a significant part) but actually it is a positive.

If the likes of Aldi and Tesco have empty shelves for a while so be it, its an acceptable price to pay for real positive change.
As an ardent Brexiteer I would like to credit Brexit solely for this but it isn't the only cause.

Despite the pain it is and will continue to cause for a while yet I see only positives in the long term.
 
It is Brexit related, but it is industry created.

You are absolutely correct, cheap imported labour has been used to keep wages artificially low for over a decade. The big employers have used this as an oppurtunity to run a price war and a race to the bottom.

The result is an absolute reliance on that cheap imprted labour which has in turn reduced the attractiveness of HGV driving in Britain.

It is all low wage company's, not just hauliers, that are having to change their game.
We are a company of around 400 employees and all of them are getting or had a substantial payrise. We have a declared intention of keeping our pay above the competition.
We aren't a haulier though, we are a manufacturer that deliver our own products nationwide (pretty much)

We know that we have to pay a fair rate and despite Coronavirus we are doing so. and now declare ourselves to be a "real living wage employer"
Most traditionally low wage employers are rasping tha the world has changed and demand for employees is high

What the remainers must now accept, whether they like it or not, is that the cheap imported labour model is gone forever. I applaud it. It is causing me difficulties recruiting because demand is very high and will remain so for at least a year, probably two.

it isn't just Brexit, it's the IR35 closing of a tax loophole and its very poor working conditions.

Brexit is part of it (a significant part) but actually it is a positive.

If the likes of Aldi and Tesco have empty shelves for a while so be it, its an acceptable price to pay for real positive change.
As an ardent Brexiteer I would like to credit Brexit solely for this but it isn't the only cause.

Despite the pain it is and will continue to cause for a while yet I see only positives in the long term.

Decent wages and access to a toilet?

You'll be wanting the moon on a stick next.
 
Decent wages and access to a toilet?

You'll be wanting the moon on a stick next.

The decent wages bit is already happening, some employers are a bit slow on the uptake but they will have no choice but get with the program.

As to the parking, toilets etc, the government proposals on the driver shortage contain a paragraph that discusses how planning regulations, Highways England and a few others will be utilised to move forward on that.

There has been a significant shift in attitude where it matters. Change is happening now.
here is a long way to go but the process has started.

What makes it really interesting is that Logistics UK and the RHA (which proclaim themselves to represent the industry) have failed in their bid to re-open the doors to cheap labour which was their only real proposal, that was the desire of the big cut price operators and they've been cut off at the knees.
Thats a dead end and the government has recognised it

Who would have thought it? Brexit and a Conservative government being the positive force in improving the lot of the working man?
The Liberals and Labour merely sought to preserve the status quo
 

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