UK Transport Crisis?

Bus companies do it. Cardiff Bus train and test their own drivers.

I didn't know private HGV companies could. One wonders why in that case the big haulage companies, Wincanton, Downton's etc don't. Tesco, with a huge fleet send many "Warehouse to wheels" trainees to my company. Might it not be cheaper, and easier to schedule training, for these companies to do it in house?
You mention bus companies . . .

Many years ago . . . maybe 30 years . . . when I was involved with Scouting, we hired a minibus, and I had to visit Lothian Bus depot (down Leith Road), for them to "test" me . . . BUT, they did not issue me with a "licence". I already had a Govt/DVLA licence for car/HGV/motor bike.

The private company tests you mention, are they for the company, bus operators, etc., own benefit . . . or, in lieu of DVLA test/licence ?!
 
You mention bus companies . . .

Many years ago . . . maybe 30 years . . . when I was involved with Scouting, we hired a minibus, and I had to visit Lothian Bus depot (down Leith Road), for them to "test" me . . . BUT, they did not issue me with a "licence". I already had a Govt/DVLA licence for car/HGV/motor bike.

The private company tests you mention, are they for the company, bus operators, etc., own benefit . . . or, in lieu of DVLA test/licence ?!

Possibly two different things here. Bus companies, Fire Brigades, MOD etc, can test for the PCV/LGV, that's been the case for a long time.

Re: minibuses, my other half had a minibus "test", which was the employer making sure she was OK to drive something of that size. An informal "duty of care thing", basically a quick drive round with someone from the transport side. No idea if he was an authorised Ministry tester, she had the right group on her licence anyway.
 

Truxx

LE
Err . . . are you saying that private companies can test HGV drivers and issue licences ?!

There would seem to be uncomfortable parallels with the Very Big private company Boeing, being able to "Self-Certify" the safety (air-worthiness), of its 737 MAX . . . :( !!
Yes and no.

Companies can, and do, conduct tests. Royal Mail have done it for years, as have the military. The civvie equivalent of a QTO course is 2 weeks. DHL have just done exactly that, qualifying 2 testers and setting up their own little academy ( they already had instructors)

The no is for the issue of licences. That is retained by DVLA.
 

2000AD

Old-Salt
Yes and no.

Companies can, and do, conduct tests. Royal Mail have done it for years, as have the military. The civvie equivalent of a QTO course is 2 weeks. DHL have just done exactly that, qualifying 2 testers and setting up their own little academy ( they already had instructors)

The no is for the issue of licences. That is retained by DVLA.
The two assessments I di, one with DHL and the other with Royal Mail very much replicated what I'd done in my Cat C driving test test.
 
 
Yes and no.

Companies can, and do, conduct tests. Royal Mail have done it for years, as have the military. The civvie equivalent of a QTO course is 2 weeks. DHL have just done exactly that, qualifying 2 testers and setting up their own little academy ( they already had instructors)

The no is for the issue of licences. That is retained by DVLA.
So a question in 2 parts. :)

Why don’t the larger firms all have their own in-house testing teams, or is that such a small requirement it’s just not worth it?

And do civilian firms require the same sort of familiarisation courses that the military need? I found my old FMT600 the other day, and it’s actually quite an interesting proof of what the military think I was competent on.
 

kieren21

Clanker
So a question in 2 parts. :)

Why don’t the larger firms all have their own in-house testing teams, or is that such a small requirement it’s just not worth it?

And do civilian firms require the same sort of familiarisation courses that the military need? I found my old FMT600 the other day, and it’s actually quite an interesting proof of what the military think I was competent on.
Up until January they had a seemingly unending supply of already licensed drivers - many with surnames ending in ‘ski.
 

Truxx

LE
So a question in 2 parts. :)

Why don’t the larger firms all have their own in-house testing teams, or is that such a small requirement it’s just not worth it?

And do civilian firms require the same sort of familiarisation courses that the military need? I found my old FMT600 the other day, and it’s actually quite an interesting proof of what the military think I was competent on.
Fist question, because it was easier and cheaper to employ Eastern Europeans.


Second question don't make me larf. New truck arriving on lease routinely have the driver handbooks taken out so when the trucks go back the company does not get charged for the loss or damage to one. So any thought of proper familiarisation is alien to many firms.

Some do it, mind. But by no means all.
 

Truxx

LE
I said a long time ago now that I did not buy the oft reported RHA shortage number of 100,000.

It seems I am not so daft after all as the "true" shortfall is more like 50,000. This from

Lorry drivers in UK plunge by 53,000 in past four years – ONS

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said analysis of the annual population survey has revealed an estimated 17% plunge in the number of HGV drivers working in the UK to 268,000 in the year to June, down from a peak of 321,000 in 2016-17.

But industry figures have put the shortage of lorry drivers in the UK at a far higher 100,000.

The ONS report underlines the issues facing the crisis-stricken haulage industry, with an ageing workforce, a shortage of EU nationals and mounting costs and red tape in the wake of Brexit.

The ONS said there were nearly a third fewer (29%) lorry drivers working in the UK aged between 46 and 54 than in the year to June 2017, with a 34,000 drop.

Nearly a third of all hauliers in the UK were aged 56 or over in 2020-21, with just under 20% aged between 19 and 35.

The figures showed the impact of the pandemic on the number of EU drivers working in the UK, with a 12,000 or 30% plunge since 2017.

The number of UK lorry drivers has fallen by 15%, or 42,000, in the same time.

Most of the decline has been seen in the past two years, particularly during the pandemic, which has taken its toll on EU drivers willing to work in the UK.
 
I said a long time ago now that I did not buy the oft reported RHA shortage number of 100,000.

It seems I am not so daft after all as the "true" shortfall is more like 50,000. This from

Lorry drivers in UK plunge by 53,000 in past four years – ONS

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said analysis of the annual population survey has revealed an estimated 17% plunge in the number of HGV drivers working in the UK to 268,000 in the year to June, down from a peak of 321,000 in 2016-17.

But industry figures have put the shortage of lorry drivers in the UK at a far higher 100,000.

The ONS report underlines the issues facing the crisis-stricken haulage industry, with an ageing workforce, a shortage of EU nationals and mounting costs and red tape in the wake of Brexit.

The ONS said there were nearly a third fewer (29%) lorry drivers working in the UK aged between 46 and 54 than in the year to June 2017, with a 34,000 drop.

Nearly a third of all hauliers in the UK were aged 56 or over in 2020-21, with just under 20% aged between 19 and 35.

The figures showed the impact of the pandemic on the number of EU drivers working in the UK, with a 12,000 or 30% plunge since 2017.

The number of UK lorry drivers has fallen by 15%, or 42,000, in the same time.

Most of the decline has been seen in the past two years, particularly during the pandemic, which has taken its toll on EU drivers willing to work in the UK.

There is another uncomfortable truth to the haulage crisis

Lots of operators, including the large retailers, have used the opportunity to rationalise unprofitable movements
No money in it, don't bother doing it

There's never been a better opportunity to palm off the shit work
 
There is another uncomfortable truth to the haulage crisis

Lots of operators, including the large retailers, have used the opportunity to rationalise unprofitable movements
No money in it, don't bother doing it

There's never been a better opportunity to palm off the shit work
Markets are great aren't they?
 

Truxx

LE
There is another uncomfortable truth to the haulage crisis

Lots of operators, including the large retailers, have used the opportunity to rationalise unprofitable movements
No money in it, don't bother doing it

There's never been a better opportunity to palm off the shit work
Obviously I keep bit of an eye on the fortunes of owner drivers/ small hauliers. Who are being driven from the mix in massive numbers.
 

Truxx

LE
This is as good a read on the subject as any. In particular (and this is a useful statistics to chuck at those frothing on facebook about "chucking EU drivers out) although 12000 left, 24000 remain.

 
Obviously I keep bit of an eye on the fortunes of owner drivers/ small hauliers. Who are being driven from the mix in massive numbers.

Can you expand on that?

I would have thought it was a great time to be either of those things at the moment but I have only spoken to one bloke I know who has half a dozen trucks and fridges and has taken the view that he's not going to shaft the local food customers he has had for years and potentially trash a business he hopes to pass on by ruining those relationships.

I would have thought ODs were bagging up.
 
Can you expand on that?

I would have thought it was a great time to be either of those things at the moment but I have only spoken to one bloke I know who has half a dozen trucks and fridges and has taken the view that he's not going to shaft the local food customers he has had for years and potentially trash a business he hopes to pass on by ruining those relationships.

I would have thought ODs were bagging up.

One thing - OD's won't have "economies of scale" in their running costs. So if the big operators can't make a job pay, an OD is unlikely to do any better.
 
This is as good a read on the subject as any. In particular (and this is a useful statistics to chuck at those frothing on facebook about "chucking EU drivers out) although 12000 left, 24000 remain.

Under the EUSS scheme and wanted to stay in the UK it was all but impossible to fail the requirements to get Leave to Remain - people wanting to leave the UK due to Brexit should have been minimal and only those too stupid or lazy to bother to register.

Other factors played into that as the article suggests.
 
More transport problems on the horizon......

European AdBlue factories suspend production, significant price increases expected​

Slovakian carriers have reportedly started panic-buying AdBlue after Duslo, the largest AdBlue factory in Europe, announced a suspension of production due to high gas prices. German supplier SKW Piesteritz has also reduced its production, as has Yara's plant in Italy. A significant price increase is thus expected.

Pölös Zsófia
Pölös Zsófia
Journalist Trans.info

21.10.2021
 

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