UK Transport Crisis?

Daz

LE
Plenty more where they came from.

At the end of the day the main focus point will be the money, if they are taking home 1200 in Poland or 2000 in the UK they will be on the next Ryanair flight (assuming they are allowed).
Only there's not, hence the increased shortfall, you've also not taken into account the relevant cost of living in each country
 
Only there's not, hence the increased shortfall, you've also not taken into account the relevant cost of living in each country

The increased shortfall may be down to covid.
The cost of living for temporary work (ie 8 to house) is still low, plenty of other foreigners come to the UK.

I live in Norway, the rules for brexit (Obviously) have not affected Eastern Europeans working here and yet there is still a massive shortage, because staying in a hotel for 10 days (quarantine) isnt worth the money or hassle.
 
It must be a huge bonus for the Eastern European countries to have all their bright, young talent staying home and using their professional qualifications to improve the domestic situation, rather than fcuking off to UK to make brews, clean hotel rooms or drive HGVs.
 
The cost of the CPC and the seemingly vacuous content seems hideously expensive. How much does an eastern European pay for it in their own country?
In Eire ( unsurprisingly) you can get a 5 day block on your cpc record for
250 euros without the inconvenience of sitting in a classroom.!!!
colour me surprised.!!!.
 
I will have a pint of whatever you are drinking.

There will be some autonomous vehicles for sure, but not for at least 15 years.

Just remember folks, by the 21st century we were all supposed to be living on a spaceship wearing flares.
Pretty sure I didn't say it was going to happen tomorrow. It's not a short term solution, I'll agree.

As I said, it will start with the easy jobs, the long trunking routes.

What you will, undoubtedly see is the pace of change accelerating. HMG is certainly trying to make sure that the UK is there as a testbed and that the roads are available for all that work to take place.

Like so many things, the old ways of doing things will, gradually, be swept away. All those jobs that "will never be done by a machine", will gradually be taken over by a machine. The demand is there, and big tech is gonna fill it.


The writing is, most definitely, on the wall!
 
Pretty sure I didn't say it was going to happen tomorrow. It's not a short term solution, I'll agree.

As I said, it will start with the easy jobs, the long trunking routes.

What you will, undoubtedly see is the pace of change accelerating. HMG is certainly trying to make sure that the UK is there as a testbed and that the roads are available for all that work to take place.

Like so many things, the old ways of doing things will, gradually, be swept away. All those jobs that "will never be done by a machine", will gradually be taken over by a machine. The demand is there, and big tech is gonna fill it.


The writing is, most definitely, on the wall!
I pretty much agree with this. They will focus on the easy stuff first. We may never see automated LGVs on country lanes (or even the A9 North of Perth), but that doesn't mean we won't see LGVs with some level of automation on the M6 or the M1.
 

Truxx

LE
It must be a huge bonus for the Eastern European countries to have all their bright, young talent staying home and using their professional qualifications to improve the domestic situation, rather than fcuking off to UK to make brews, clean hotel rooms or drive HGVs.
Whilst sending all their hard earned home.
 
Pretty sure I didn't say it was going to happen tomorrow. It's not a short term solution, I'll agree.

As I said, it will start with the easy jobs, the long trunking routes.

What you will, undoubtedly see is the pace of change accelerating. HMG is certainly trying to make sure that the UK is there as a testbed and that the roads are available for all that work to take place.

Like so many things, the old ways of doing things will, gradually, be swept away. All those jobs that "will never be done by a machine", will gradually be taken over by a machine. The demand is there, and big tech is gonna fill it.


The writing is, most definitely, on the wall!
Without dissing your puppy like enthusiasm how are these bright eyed acolytes of change going to avoid being bankrupted by the cenario s pointed out in my previous post.
( And just saying “ because it’s progress” wont really cut it in front of a barrister).
 

Truxx

LE
Will undoubtedly be part of the solution.
I think so. But it is interesting that you should use the word "solution"

I do not think that such a thing is either possible or desirable. I think, like many other aspects of life the pandemic has, on the one hand shown up an already weak system whilst at the same time leaning on it in an unprecedented way and bending it completely out of shape. This has been a constant since Ceaser was MTO.

And yet here we are. Your Amazon Prime order lands on your doormat within 24 hours, supermarkets have stuff on the shelves, that garden chair you ordered on Fleabay will arrive from China in a relatively short time.

So it is not that buggered. But there is immence change in the air. But my guess is that the response to that will be piecemeal and incremental, same as it always has been.

The real revolution is probably in stock control and visibility. Where a bumper can be dispatched from a factory, be transported and arrive just in time for it to be clipped onto a new car in a second factory a hundred miles away. And yet truck drivers still have to piss in a bottle and park up in a grotty lay on the A34.

Lots of automation already ot there, automatic gearboxes, telematics collision avoidance adaptive cruise control, cameras not mirrors, driver fatigue sensors, lane control, and a hundred thousand miles between oil changes.

But just when today's challenges are being addressed along will come a whole bunch more.
 

Daz

LE
The increased shortfall may be down to covid.
The cost of living for temporary work (ie 8 to house) is still low, plenty of other foreigners come to the UK.

I live in Norway, the rules for brexit (Obviously) have not affected Eastern Europeans working here and yet there is still a massive shortage, because staying in a hotel for 10 days (quarantine) isnt worth the money or hassle.
The shortfall was happening pre covid and pre-Brexit, that and the rules changes have accelerated the process
 
I think so. But it is interesting that you should use the word "solution"

I do not think that such a thing is either possible or desirable. I think, like many other aspects of life the pandemic has, on the one hand shown up an already weak system whilst at the same time leaning on it in an unprecedented way and bending it completely out of shape. This has been a constant since Ceaser was MTO.

And yet here we are. Your Amazon Prime order lands on your doormat within 24 hours, supermarkets have stuff on the shelves, that garden chair you ordered on Fleabay will arrive from China in a relatively short time.

So it is not that buggered. But there is immence change in the air. But my guess is that the response to that will be piecemeal and incremental, same as it always has been.

The real revolution is probably in stock control and visibility. Where a bumper can be dispatched from a factory, be transported and arrive just in time for it to be clipped onto a new car in a second factory a hundred miles away. And yet truck drivers still have to piss in a bottle and park up in a grotty lay on the A34.

Lots of automation already ot there, automatic gearboxes, telematics collision avoidance adaptive cruise control, cameras not mirrors, driver fatigue sensors, lane control, and a hundred thousand miles between oil changes.

But just when today's challenges are being addressed along will come a whole bunch more.
You know, I think you're absolutely right. "Solution" implies some sort of end-point, which of course, there will never be.
Your last sentence is spot on.
 

Daz

LE
The latest missive from the RHA to HMG from their press release, notice the top two suggestions are to import workers and down at number 11 is the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points....way to go RHA


As has been long predicted by the RHA, the UK HGV driver shortage has now hit catastrophic proportions and the organisation has now published its 12-point plan to tackle the situation.

RHA Chief Executive, Richard Burnett said: “The upturn in the economy since Covid-19 is increasing demand across supply chains and the reopening of non-essential retail outlets and parts of the hospitality sector is making the situation even worse.

“The pandemic also resulted in the loss of about 12 months of driver training and testing. The long-term ineffectiveness of apprenticeships for lorry drivers and the general hostility from authorities and Government is also unhelpful for recruiting and retaining drivers.”

All of the above means that freight rates are rising to a level that operators are finding unsustainable, and costs will have to be passed on to consumers.

In conclusion, Richard said: “We need Government to act and address the driver shortage for the industry and the drivers. While we welcome the increase in HGV apprenticeship funding to £7,000, this barely scratches the surface of the problem.”

The RHA’s 12-point plan covers the following:

  1. Include HGV drivers on Government’s Skilled Worker Shortage Occupation List
  2. Coronavirus recovery – a seasonal visa scheme for qualified HGV drivers
  3. Continued priority driving tests for HGV drivers
  4. Establish a ‘Return to HGV Driving’ scheme
  5. Better promotion of the job and the sector as a whole
  6. Apprenticeship funding gap for C+E drivers in England and Wales
  7. Apprenticeships for Class C drivers
  8. An SME-focused HGV driver training scheme
  9. An independent HGV independent training loan scheme
  10. Other training schemes – DWP pilots/Road to Logistics
  11. Increase productivity of the road network
  12. Improve site productivity and the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points
 
The latest missive from the RHA to HMG from their press release, notice the top two suggestions are to import workers and down at number 11 is the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points....way to go RHA


As has been long predicted by the RHA, the UK HGV driver shortage has now hit catastrophic proportions and the organisation has now published its 12-point plan to tackle the situation.

RHA Chief Executive, Richard Burnett said: “The upturn in the economy since Covid-19 is increasing demand across supply chains and the reopening of non-essential retail outlets and parts of the hospitality sector is making the situation even worse.

“The pandemic also resulted in the loss of about 12 months of driver training and testing. The long-term ineffectiveness of apprenticeships for lorry drivers and the general hostility from authorities and Government is also unhelpful for recruiting and retaining drivers.”

All of the above means that freight rates are rising to a level that operators are finding unsustainable, and costs will have to be passed on to consumers.

In conclusion, Richard said: “We need Government to act and address the driver shortage for the industry and the drivers. While we welcome the increase in HGV apprenticeship funding to £7,000, this barely scratches the surface of the problem.”

The RHA’s 12-point plan covers the following:

  1. Include HGV drivers on Government’s Skilled Worker Shortage Occupation List
  2. Coronavirus recovery – a seasonal visa scheme for qualified HGV drivers
  3. Continued priority driving tests for HGV drivers
  4. Establish a ‘Return to HGV Driving’ scheme
  5. Better promotion of the job and the sector as a whole
  6. Apprenticeship funding gap for C+E drivers in England and Wales
  7. Apprenticeships for Class C drivers
  8. An SME-focused HGV driver training scheme
  9. An independent HGV independent training loan scheme
  10. Other training schemes – DWP pilots/Road to Logistics
  11. Increase productivity of the road network
  12. Improve site productivity and the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points
It used to embarrass me that my old mob payed these no marks subs.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Whilst reading this thread, a notification came up for a job agency email, offering a HGV Class 2 job in London @£15.97ph.
 
The latest missive from the RHA to HMG from their press release, notice the top two suggestions are to import workers and down at number 11 is the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points....way to go RHA


As has been long predicted by the RHA, the UK HGV driver shortage has now hit catastrophic proportions and the organisation has now published its 12-point plan to tackle the situation.

RHA Chief Executive, Richard Burnett said: “The upturn in the economy since Covid-19 is increasing demand across supply chains and the reopening of non-essential retail outlets and parts of the hospitality sector is making the situation even worse.

“The pandemic also resulted in the loss of about 12 months of driver training and testing. The long-term ineffectiveness of apprenticeships for lorry drivers and the general hostility from authorities and Government is also unhelpful for recruiting and retaining drivers.”

All of the above means that freight rates are rising to a level that operators are finding unsustainable, and costs will have to be passed on to consumers.

In conclusion, Richard said: “We need Government to act and address the driver shortage for the industry and the drivers. While we welcome the increase in HGV apprenticeship funding to £7,000, this barely scratches the surface of the problem.”

The RHA’s 12-point plan covers the following:

  1. Include HGV drivers on Government’s Skilled Worker Shortage Occupation List
  2. Coronavirus recovery – a seasonal visa scheme for qualified HGV drivers
  3. Continued priority driving tests for HGV drivers
  4. Establish a ‘Return to HGV Driving’ scheme
  5. Better promotion of the job and the sector as a whole
  6. Apprenticeship funding gap for C+E drivers in England and Wales
  7. Apprenticeships for Class C drivers
  8. An SME-focused HGV driver training scheme
  9. An independent HGV independent training loan scheme
  10. Other training schemes – DWP pilots/Road to Logistics
  11. Increase productivity of the road network
  12. Improve site productivity and the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points
Corporations have to be told in no uncertain terms that their preferred solution to every business problem of "import more cheap labour from overseas" is now no longer an option.

Once they understand that, then we can discuss in a full and frank manner how best to accommodate their genuine concerns and how to ameliorate whatever problems they are encountering and it will be surprising how many inventive and imaginative solutions can be found.
 
Corporations have to be told in no uncertain terms that their preferred solution to every business problem of "import more cheap labour from overseas" is now no longer an option.

Once they understand that, then we can discuss in a full and frank manner how best to accommodate their genuine concerns and how to ameliorate whatever problems they are encountering and it will be surprising how many inventive and imaginative solutions can be found.
Reads like a might fine soundbite.

Under current immigration policy, how do they import cheap labour from overseas?

The other issue is, how do you stop them exporting their business abroad to where the cheap labour is? Like Dyson. Not every "business problem" is constrained by having to be located within the UK. Obviously, the distribution industry is, but that does not extrapolate to "Corporations".
 

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