UK to purchase 2 Littoral Strike Ships

#61
Maybe someone should start Water Escorts - the high end escort service for navies which want to get CapEx off their books, but need some "loving" from time to time. ;)

Rest of the time, we take paying passengers to cruise around. Kind of like Air Tanker.
 
#62
Genuine question.

Are we talking about commercial build (cheap to build and cheap to operate) mobile barracks with a heli pad that can move around benign environments?
 
#63
Just a thought - is the Littoral Strike Ship intended as a replacement for HMS Ocean instead of the LPDs? Just how large is that flight deck?

Anyway, even with problems caused by a lack of manpower and a lack of political will to give us the extra people we need, we can still generate a task group. Quoting myself from elsewhere:

Could we generate a decent task group? Well a few months ago, in mid October.....

HMS Queen Elizabeth was escorted by the Type 23 Monmouth during her trials, and supported by the tanker RFA Tidespring. At the same time RN ships were committed to Exercise Trident Juncture - two Type 23s providing ASW for the USS Iwo Jima, which had Royal Marines aboard, and a force of four MCMV and a Survey ship as their command platform. There was probably a SSN there as well.

At the same time Albion (LPD) and RFA Mounts Bay (LSD(A)) were committed to Saif Sareea 3 with a large part of 3 Cdo Bde. There was a Type 45 taking part in SS3, although she was doing it was part of a routine deployment - there was another Type 45 deployed in the Eastern Med at the same time.

Thinking of Sun Tzu/Clauswitz and 'concentration of force', what if this had been a fully worked up task group, with a fully worked up carrier and air group?

1 x carrier (with up to 24 x F-35B, 9 x Merlin HM2, plus Crowsnest and Junglies)
1 x LPD (with bootnecks)
1 X LSD(A) (with more bootnecks)
1 or 2 x Type 45
3 x Type 23
4 x MCMV, plus SVHO (Survey vessel) as command platform
Multiple RFA tankers/stores ships
1 x SSN (at least)

What if we were able to do things like the Auriga 2010 deployment, but with Queen Elizabeth and F-35B instead of Ark Royal (V) and Harrier GR9, and Type 45 instead of Type 42? That is what the RN will soon be doing.
 
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#64
My point is that cheap frigates are unlikely to survive either. Should we spend that money on cheaper ships or invest in gaining one or two more higher end vessels to ship classes already planned etc. This is the continuing discussion on the High low mix, what risks we are willing to take and when we are actually going to be able to say what area is too dangerous to operate in.

How cheap are you talking? Cos really its likely to not be cheap if you want it to do anything.



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I would say about a billion or less.

Akizuki-class destroyer (2010) - Wikipedia

Call me a sell out but something like that would help out the USN, instead of the LCS boondoggle or trying to design and build a new FFG from scratch.
 
#65
My point is that cheap frigates are unlikely to survive either. Should we spend that money on cheaper ships or invest in gaining one or two more higher end vessels to ship classes already planned etc. This is the continuing discussion on the High low mix, what risks we are willing to take and when we are actually going to be able to say what area is too dangerous to operate in.

How cheap are you talking? Cos really its likely to not be cheap if you want it to do anything.



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‘Fight To Get To The Fight:’ Marine Amphibs Under The Gun


Well It seems like we are going to try to avoid the littorals or stay as far offshore as possible. Good luck!!
 
#66
Hmm. On the one hand, it's seems like FLSS is meant to be a roaming Commando Mothership, on the other it feels like the goal is really to free up the Bays for Amphib Tasking.... I guess the aim is to try to achieve both.
 
#67
Well how are unescorted Amphibs going to survive? They won’t have much in the way of point defenses and no capabilities against submarines. Frigates would be nice, they are general purpose escorts and cheaper than a modern DDG.
Your platform went off radar for 3 years. It just turned up delivered the business and went on about its way. A new form of stealth - don't signal to the enemy, just provide a platform to allow others to kill them.

I haven't seen your platform in Riga, but will be looking out in future.
 
#69
They'll be perfect for FRONTEX ops...
 
#70
I live near to Appledore, and all the talk about the yard being saved has referred to orders to the replace the Isles of Scilly ferry(ies), nothing to do with the MOD.
 
#71
Will they be bought “off the shelf” or will they be paying Babcock 1000% over the original price and 10 years over the quoted completion date?
Corrupt? Nooooo!
 
#73
“One would be based East of Suez in the Indo-Pacific, one based West in the Mediterranean, Atlantic and Baltic. And, if we ever need them to, our two aircraft carriers, our amphibious assault ships Albion and Bulwark, and our three Bay Class landing ships can come together in one amphibious force.”

Sooo..........Western and Eastern Fleets then or Something more historic ? I focused on “Mediterranean” first but since it also has to cover Atlantic/Baltic I think they should just base it at Gibraltar (I bet that would piss off the Spaniards.......so that’s a plus !) and call it “Force H” ! ;)
 
#74
Oh dear.

Following the 2017 flurry of buzzword bingo that accompanied the arrival of the Strike Brigade, where it seemed across the army, every brief included it as desperate G3 ninja SOs scrabbled for their career defining project or concept to be "relevant, hip and down with the kids", it has now gone fully purple ("Never go full purple - part purple wins the oscar").
One could argue that Strike as a buzzword started with the RAF a long time ago, so not only have the Navy now got sloppy thirds, but it is definitely an aging cougar-esque buzzword

Either that or Frederick Forsyth has had another plot concept ripped off
 
#75
I think the RN's plan is to "Uber" escorts and other support ships as they sail around the world.
You might not be far off given that Uber owns no vehicles and the government awarded (and retracted) a shipping contract to Seaborne Freight - a company without any ships :rolleyes:
 
#76
Is there any good reason why the navy couldn't fill it's manpower shortages from the army?
Yes, I know the army is undermanned too, but it can't go anywhere without the navy or RAF to move it.
Use up those REME battalions for ships' crew and transfer a few infantry and light cav units to the marines, job jobbed.
 
#77
If only we had enough manpower for BOTH LPDs and had not flogged off one of the LSA(A)s..... Like @instinct said. Is this another high value asset to be protected by frigates/destroyers/carrier based aircraft?

Now Mr W, about that extra 1500 personnel the RN expected at the time of the last defence review?
Exactly. The chances of both of these new vessels and both carriers being at sea at the same time is microscopic. Manpower, overhaul etc simply make this scenario a pipe dream.
 
#78
Just a thought - is the Littoral Strike Ship intended as a replacement for HMS Ocean instead of the LPDs? Just how large is that flight deck?
.
No, they are for raiding operations, not high intensity warfighting.
Putting 80 boots ashore to destroy pirates skiffs, not invade Mogadishu.

Ocean is being replaced by HMS Prince of Wales.
 
#79
Oh dear.

Following the 2017 flurry of buzzword bingo that accompanied the arrival of the Strike Brigade, where it seemed across the army, every brief included it as desperate G3 ninja SOs scrabbled for their career defining project or concept to be "relevant, hip and down with the kids", it has now gone fully purple ("Never go full purple - part purple wins the oscar").
One could argue that Strike as a buzzword started with the RAF a long time ago, so not only have the Navy now got sloppy thirds, but it is definitely an aging cougar-esque buzzword

Either that or Frederick Forsyth has had another plot concept ripped off
Apropos of nothing in particular but in 39 Inf Bde AOR c2001 there were infantry 'Strike' companies.

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#80
Is there any good reason why the navy couldn't fill it's manpower shortages from the army?
Yes, I know the army is undermanned too, but it can't go anywhere without the navy or RAF to move it.
Use up those REME battalions for ships' crew and transfer a few infantry and light cav units to the marines, job jobbed.
And it would return the favour from the first unpleasantness when the RN helped out the BEF with manpower:

63rd (Royal Naval) Division - Wikipedia



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