UK Soldiers have Murder Charges Dropped

#21
Marvellous news; of course it was ridiculous that these trumped up charges ever got to the stage of a Court martial. Bloody good news all the same. A fair few schwelllies will be sunk in Colly and Dover tonight, no doubt!
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#22
I dare say there will be a few drinks throughout the army tonight, shame it took so long to prove the obvious. The question is, are the witnesses, the people who paid them and the shadowy figures behing the prosecution going to be charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice? I won't hold my breath!
 
#24
Made up for the guys !!! WTF it got this far in the 1st place I,ll never know.To many Fecking lefty tw@ts in our justice system !!!!

Regards LT
 
#25
Wouldn't it be great to see the CPS go after Phil Shiner and Public Interest Lawyers for producing all those false witnesses. What a cracking idea. Bet they haven't got the balls for it though.
 
#26
Gilbert Blades is no fan of the SIB, having lost numerous cases trying to defend guilty barstewards at GCM's throughout the world and one who sells himself as the soldiers friend. He likes the fame big trials bring. The best he could do at one trial was to try to say that GCM's were unlawful, quoting the magna carta? The defendant must have thought he was worth every penny as he was taken down.

I don't think its fair to blame the RMP in this instance. They would have presented the best available evidence and it is the Army Prosecuting Authority that would have pushed the charges forward under whatever political influences were being made at the time. The fact that they were allowed to walk free says a lot for justice and he (Blades) and his client, should be thankful for that. Was he actually saying his client was guilty but the RMP were crap and couldn't prove it??

Blades will do anything for a bit of press coverage.

NB
 
#27
I am not for one minute saying the accused PARA's were guilty of anything but it wasn't Blades defence that got them off.
 
#28
Northern_Biff said:
Gilbert Blades is no fan of the SIB, having lost numerous cases trying to defend guilty barstewards at GCM's throughout the world and one who sells himself as the soldiers friend. He likes the fame big trials bring. The best he could do at one trial was to try to say that GCM's were unlawful, quoting the magna carta? The defendant must have thought he was worth every penny as he was taken down.

I don't think its fair to blame the RMP in this instance. They would have presented the best available evidence and it is the Army Prosecuting Authority that would have pushed the charges forward under whatever political influences were being made at the time. The fact that they were allowed to walk free says a lot for justice and he (Blades) and his client, should be thankful for that. Was he actually saying his client was guilty but the RMP were crap and couldn't prove it??

Blades will do anything for a bit of press coverage.NB
I don't think that fan of SIB or not comes into this. JAG is reported as saying that deficiency in the case was not checking hospital records or getting details of a burial. These are the basics and should not have been overlooked. Overlooked by a number of people; OC SIB on the ground, reviewing authority right up to the guy who said prosecution should lie. It is not as if they saw the faults - had they done so it would have ben possible to go back and get this sort of detail. Maybe the SIB were less than 100% - difficult to say at this distance - but someone should have noticed what was missing. In this respect, they did not get best evidence.
Likelyhood is that the investigation process will come under pressure for change. The Army Act review is soon upon us. Any outside investigators - UK police or some UN f/up - will be a less attractive solution unless one of us is charged with shooting a bloke armed with a table leg.
 
#29
I can't comment on what the JAG said as its the first I heard of it.
Without all the facts I dont think its fair to comment on whether they did a 100% job or not. They may have done so (checked the Med records)and this should have been included in the disclosure. May,have, might, doesn't mean very much.
I dont see your point about the chair leg job. It was investigated, several times as I recall and found wanting. Whats the differnce between shooting a bloke with a chair leg, and allegedly beating a 17 yo to death?

If the SIB are found wanting, then lets have it out in the open.
 
#30
dui-lai said:
Herrenbloke said:
I wonder how many Millions it cost to get it this far? Money that could have been spent on Cluster bombs...
Quoted as costing us, the taxpayers, £10 million :evil:

still some fat-cat lawyer will be on the pissh tonight down Chelsea
True. But remember that it was a bunch of defence fat cat lawyers (Neil Ford QC and Richard Ferguson QC among them) who got these guys off. And it's not lawyers who initiate prosecutions.
 
#31
Dr_Evil said:
dui-lai said:
Herrenbloke said:
I wonder how many Millions it cost to get it this far? Money that could have been spent on Cluster bombs...
Quoted as costing us, the taxpayers, £10 million :evil:

still some fat-cat lawyer will be on the pissh tonight down Chelsea
True. But remember that it was a bunch of defence fat cat lawyers (Neil Ford QC and Richard Ferguson QC among them) who got these guys off. And it's not lawyers who initiate prosecutions.

Forgive my ignorance; if not lawyers, then who runs the Crown Prosecution Service?

This is asked without irony is because I really don't know. I would have expected the CPS to be populated by people who have a law degree. If this isn't so, WTF?
 
#32
Hospital records? Burial records? This occurred in the immediate post conflict period in a country that we had just invaded! What records?! The place was in clip. There was no groovy SIB investigation because people were concerned with other things at the time. For the umpteenth time IT IS NOT LIKE NORTHERN IRELAND OR BLOODY GODALMING!

This is why cases like this are bloody ridiculous unless someone from the unit is the prosecution witness. If the SIB couldn't turn up anyone from the inside whose account was different then the APA should have dropped it and not given in to pressure to show off the scrupulous investigations of the Army (system before soldiers).
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#33
There was no post mortem either, how could the prosecution say what the cause of death was? The case was so full of holes it resembeled an IRA terrorist in Gibraltar.
 
#34
Themanwho said:
Dr_Evil said:
dui-lai said:
Herrenbloke said:
I wonder how many Millions it cost to get it this far? Money that could have been spent on Cluster bombs...
Quoted as costing us, the taxpayers, £10 million :evil:

still some fat-cat lawyer will be on the pissh tonight down Chelsea
True. But remember that it was a bunch of defence fat cat lawyers (Neil Ford QC and Richard Ferguson QC among them) who got these guys off. And it's not lawyers who initiate prosecutions.

Forgive my ignorance; if not lawyers, then who runs the Crown Prosecution Service?

This is asked without irony is because I really don't know. I would have expected the CPS to be populated by people who have a law degree. If this isn't so, WTF?
Gotcha! Lawyers do not initiate prosecutions. The filth of various stripes (as well as odd bods like HM Customs and Excise) do that. OK, so lawyers in the CPS have an input in to the process (they filter out cases where the evidence is too flimsy to bring before a court).

To me, this looks like justice done. Done very expensively but the expense (especially that which was incurred through legal aid to enable the accused soldiers to get top-flight representation) was worth it.
 
#35
Themanwho said:
Dr_Evil said:
dui-lai said:
Herrenbloke said:
I wonder how many Millions it cost to get it this far? Money that could have been spent on Cluster bombs...
Quoted as costing us, the taxpayers, £10 million :evil:

still some fat-cat lawyer will be on the pissh tonight down Chelsea
True. But remember that it was a bunch of defence fat cat lawyers (Neil Ford QC and Richard Ferguson QC among them) who got these guys off. And it's not lawyers who initiate prosecutions.

Forgive my ignorance; if not lawyers, then who runs the Crown Prosecution Service?

This is asked without irony is because I really don't know. I would have expected the CPS to be populated by people who have a law degree. If this isn't so, WTF?
The CPS is run by the Attorney General and is indeed populated by lawyers etc. The pay, however, is utterly sh*t (Civil Service scales) and therefore the CPS attracts the absolute dregs of the legal profession, something which is often reflected in the curious choice of cases they choose to either drop or prosecute. The actual prosecuting barristers (led in this case by Martin Heslop QC) are selected by the CPS but not employees of the CPS and were of very high quality.

With ref to the case one of the problems was that the quality of the evidence was appalling and frequently contradictory. In part this was because the RMP & SIB took the frankly bizarre decision to interview the witnesses using translators who spoke an entirely different dialect from the witnesses. In addition to the fact that witnesses were being paid to give evidence (WTF!) it allowed the defence to drive a horse & carriage through the prosecution's case. At least in this instance the Judge took the only sensible decision and threw the case out - for once an instance of justice being done. I too, sincerely hope that the defendents receive some form of compensation for this misbegotten and politically driven prosecution.
 
#36
Now I'm certainly no Rumple of the Bailey, however in my book -

a. The judge was a top bananna for throwing this crock of sihte out the door
b. The scum sucking pricks in the media continue to be scum sucking pricks for accusing the lads involved of being guilty.
c. The paying of witness' WHAT THE FCUK was that all about!
d. The blokes should NEVER been in ANY court in the firstplace.
e. I hope upon hope, that the lads involved submit claims and win fcukin huge compensation payments for the hassle and grief.

Time to get the boss involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
#37
Conall said:
Themanwho said:
Dr_Evil said:
dui-lai said:
Herrenbloke said:
I wonder how many Millions it cost to get it this far? Money that could have been spent on Cluster bombs...
Quoted as costing us, the taxpayers, £10 million :evil:

still some fat-cat lawyer will be on the pissh tonight down Chelsea
True. But remember that it was a bunch of defence fat cat lawyers (Neil Ford QC and Richard Ferguson QC among them) who got these guys off. And it's not lawyers who initiate prosecutions.

Forgive my ignorance; if not lawyers, then who runs the Crown Prosecution Service?

This is asked without irony is because I really don't know. I would have expected the CPS to be populated by people who have a law degree. If this isn't so, WTF?
The CPS is run by the Attorney General and is indeed populated by lawyers etc. The pay, however, is utterly sh*t (Civil Service scales) and therefore the CPS attracts the absolute dregs of the legal profession, something which is often reflected in the curious choice of cases they choose to either drop or prosecute. The actual prosecuting barristers (led in this case by Martin Heslop QC) are selected by the CPS but not employees of the CPS and were of very high quality.

With ref to the case one of the problems was that the quality of the evidence was appalling and frequently contradictory. In part this was because the RMP & SIB took the frankly bizarre decision to interview the witnesses using translators who spoke an entirely different dialect from the witnesses. In addition to the fact that witnesses were being paid to give evidence (WTF!) it allowed the defence to drive a horse & carriage through the prosecution's case. At least in this instance the Judge took the only sensible decision and threw the case out - for once an instance of justice being done. I too, sincerely hope that the defendents receive some form of compensation for this misbegotten and politically driven prosecution.
In this instance, however, the CPS were replaced by the APA......more 'high quality' lawyers I don't doubt.

As Von Ryan said, it was during hostilities or close to the end (har de har har) and the resouce of having the best from a selection of interpreters would have been a comfort I doubt the RMP had. I am certain the witnesses would have been re-interviewed at a later date using the correct interpreters.......I would hope so anyway.

The bbc link also quoted:
"The judge said the prosecution team had presented their case "properly and objectively". "
 
#38
Dr_Evil said:
Themanwho said:
Dr_Evil said:
dui-lai said:
Herrenbloke said:
I wonder how many Millions it cost to get it this far? Money that could have been spent on Cluster bombs...
Quoted as costing us, the taxpayers, £10 million :evil:

still some fat-cat lawyer will be on the pissh tonight down Chelsea
True. But remember that it was a bunch of defence fat cat lawyers (Neil Ford QC and Richard Ferguson QC among them) who got these guys off. And it's not lawyers who initiate prosecutions.

Forgive my ignorance; if not lawyers, then who runs the Crown Prosecution Service?

This is asked without irony is because I really don't know. I would have expected the CPS to be populated by people who have a law degree. If this isn't so, WTF?
Gotcha! Lawyers do not initiate prosecutions. The filth of various stripes (as well as odd bods like HM Customs and Excise) do that. OK, so lawyers in the CPS have an input in to the process (they filter out cases where the evidence is too flimsy to bring before a court).

To me, this looks like justice done. Done very expensively but the expense (especially that which was incurred through legal aid to enable the accused soldiers to get top-flight representation) was worth it.
Lawyers do iniate trials, they are now the charging authority for all but the most trivial offiences...........

BTW these guys are not off scott free. They have not been found guilty by a court, merely had the charges dropped. This means they can be retried. Anyone who has seen what some police officers have been through recently will realise that this will be a strong possibility if the Shiners of this world go to judicial review. The fat lady rarely sings nowadays.

Trotsky
 
#39
Not sure if I saw this right but think the ITV 24 news channel just showed stock footage of american marines (LVPT7 and a Hum-V) while discussing the Para story.
 
#40
Vonshot said:
No this means that in future sh1theads like Phil Shiner will brief the Iraqi witness's better. The liberal media and social workers will see it as the Para reg getting away with it. If the RMP are responsible due to being crap at investigations, and there is a big lobby who will say yes, we may see even worse situations in future. Civilian investigators next?


This was a farce from the start, who was the guiding force behind this? Arrsers somewhere will know.

Int on this thread
Conspiracy theorists may argue another angle. Suppose our doughty pseudo-fuzz screwed up on purpose, thereby forcing the JA to bin it? Paras still get off and the reputation of our SIB cannot be tarnished further.

Not a dig at redcaps but the idiots in ill-fitting suits passing themselves off as Poirots.
 

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