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UK should recognise the independence of Catalunya

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#41
Why? It’s an internal matter for the Spanish?
Did we get all this boo hooing about the Basques?
By the way. Catalan independence has already been supported by Sinn Fein (both sides of the border)
 
#42
The UK interest in this is to give problems to the EU. A weak EU is good for the UK, plus the rich Catalonia outside the EU will be available to sign trade deals with the UK. The UK has all to gain from an independent Catalonia rather than a strong and solid EU. And this crisis could in theory destroy the EU completely in the worst case scenario for Brussels, so it's a chance that the UK shouldn't miss.
I agree that Catalonia is a wealthy region.

However, given that two large banks have already said they will move HQ to Madrid, how much will more capital flight, lack of investment etc maintain that wealth.

Will they go back to the peseta. They can’t use the euro as an independent Catalonia will not be part of the EU. If there was some interim agreement to continue with the euro then they have already given up monetary independence.

Watch the Spanish impose massive tariffs on goods passing through Catalonia. The French might follow to discourage their own nationalist movements.

Watch all the military bases in Catalonia transfer elsewhere. All state benefits, pensions etc stopped as the liability no longer rests with the Spanish state. Any infrastructure projects cancelled. Customs posts on roads and railways. Visa requirement for Catalonians as non-EU citizens.

It’s very easy to chop your nose off to spite your face.
 
#43
Why? It’s an internal matter for the Spanish?
Did we get all this boo hooing about the Basques?
By the way. Catalan independence has already been supported by Sinn Fein (both sides of the border)
Good point Skid - as I say, if the UK recognised Catalonia - it's SF and the SNP that Catalonia will fondly and sympathetically remember as "comrades in struggle" - not the UK.

Quite enough nations hate the UK already - there's nothing to gain from adding another.
 
#44
I agree that Catalonia is a wealthy region.

However, given that two large banks have already said they will move HQ to Madrid, how much will more capital flight, lack of investment etc maintain that wealth.

Will they go back to the peseta. They can’t use the euro as an independent Catalonia will not be part of the EU. If there was some interim agreement to continue with the euro then they have already given up monetary independence.

Watch the Spanish impose massive tariffs on goods passing through Catalonia. The French might follow to discourage their own nationalist movements.

Watch all the military bases in Catalonia transfer elsewhere. All state benefits, pensions etc stopped as the liability no longer rests with the Spanish state. Any infrastructure projects cancelled. Customs posts on roads and railways. Visa requirement for Catalonians as non-EU citizens.

It’s very easy to chop your nose off to spite your face.
And of course they will inherit their share of Spanish debt.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#45
Good point Skid - as I say, if the UK recognised Catalonia - it's SF and the SNP that Catalonia will fondly and sympathetically remember as "comrades in struggle" - not the UK.

Quite enough nations hate the UK already - there's nothing to gain from adding another.
And I like the Catalans, much prefer Barcelona to Madrid. But this will fracture badly and there’s enough grief going around.
 
#46
Yers the Irony is that Arthur is STB a fictional King-it would have been more apt about Richard II
Not necessarily completely fictional, if you ignore all the made up stuff of Malory there could be a grain of truths in the stories of old

The real myths such as they are come from Welsh poetry, and because the battles took place over many different times and places that it if there is a grain of truth in them, Arthur was most likely based on the tales of more than one man
 
#48
I don’t think the map is complete.

The actual map shows 10 military bases with flags but lists 16 locations underneath.

A quick search indicates 20 Air Force/ Navy bases. I can’t find a number for the Army.

Notwithstanding the actual numbers/ locations the point I was making was there would be a general retraction/withdrawal of state involvement in an independent Catalonia.
 
#49
Since the end of Franco I wonder if it has been a deliberate policy not to site significant military facilities within Catalonia?
I suppose there are those within the separatists who are daydreaming about "their share" of the Spanish Forces.
 
#50
Not necessarily completely fictional, if you ignore all the made up stuff of Malory there could be a grain of truths in the stories of old

The real myths such as they are come from Welsh poetry, and because the battles took place over many different times and places that it if there is a grain of truth in them, Arthur was most likely based on the tales of more than one man
I know I investigated it for twenty years in my spare time. The likley truth is far more interesting.
 
#53
They can’t use the euro as an independent Catalonia will not be part of the EU.
I'm not sure about that. I think there are countries that use the US dollar as currency. What you don't have is control of the factors that impact it's value so you could get economically shafted just by accident.
 
#56
I'm not sure about that.

I think there are countries that use the US dollar as currency.

What you don't have is control of the factors that impact it's value so you could get economically shafted just by accident.
I agree with the first sentence as I am not sure either. But is anyone? The EU could instruct member states not to accept euros from Catalonia as it is not a valid currency.
Not really likely, but possible.

There are lots of countries that use the US$. It’s called currency substitution. A lot of countries that have their own currency also use the US$ - in Bermuda US currency is acceptable and is on par with the Bermuda dollar. Lots of former French colonies used the franc and moved to the euro. All the little monarchies in Europe who had their own currency (or not) use the euro, despite not being EU members.

With respect to your last point that is what I argued when I said continued use of the euro would automatically concede financial sovereignty.

It’s hard to find any reasoned explanation as to how this might work - more or less the same as we saw with Scottish independence.
 
#57
Catalonia could choose to use any currency it likes, it could use the euro - but NOT print them.
It simply would have no control over a central aspect of its economic or financial system.

Cursory research shows that the Euro (along with the US$) is used as currency in Zimbabwe, Syria and Cuba...
So as those examples show, a thriving economy can use foreign currency....
- oh wait a mo.
 
#58
¿Quién quiere reiniciar la Guerra de la Sucesión Española?

As in 1701, France is in the Spanish side, but... now Germany, Italy and Netherland too.

 
#59
Is this map complete? If so it seems the Spanish have very little in the region.
Google Maps

Edit to add the more you zoom in the more appear but even so Catalonia is quite empty
There are several barracks, but only one permanent unit, the Arapiles 62 Mountain Rifles regiment.


Two battalions, Badajoz I/62 (Gerona)



and Barcelona II/62 (Barcelona)
 
#60
So you reckon a trade deal with 7 million Catalonians is a better option than a trade deal with 500 million Europeans. Genius.
So the UK is still a EU member? I didn't know that. If it's leaving instead, what condition would favour the UK over the EU on making the deal, a EU superpower against a tiny UK or a weak EU that is losing other members? Which of those two options give the UK a stronger dealing power?
 

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