Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, May 21, 2007.
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Makes a couple of good points.
1) TA should not be used to patch up Regular units for enduring ops
2) Probability of formed unit deployments would put a useful incentive for all members of the unit to attain the highest standards of Mil skills possible, not just the fittests, most available who are willing to be mobilised.
Agreed, but I also think that going on tour as part of a Regular unit is also a good thing.
It closes the STAB/ARAB gap, is excellent experience to work alongside regular counterparts and, to be honest, its doing the job you signed up to do.
At the end of it, the way I see it is that the TA are now being used in the way that they were meant to be used origonally, those that dont like it know what they should do.
Doing tours as a formed unit? good idea in theory, but a unit of 10 blokes wont have much of an impact
What, defending Great Britain from invasion? Apart from Polish workers, when did we get invaded? Was I asleep when it happened?
By that I meant backing up the regular Army,
But for now Ill retire to my box
Agreed, its good to have the opportunity to go as an IR. I think the issue is more that if that is all that is happening then the non deployed rump who don't volunteer for ops will eventually Foxtrot Oscar .... and then what?
Personally I would have much preferred to mobilise with my comrades I spent years training with than some pimply sprogs from the Regs with the attitude.
I can see your point Pluvia, and yes It would be great to be mobilised like you say, with people you know and have worked with for years, however it is something that is not really possible with all units. Those that have a good amount of troops in them and can operate effectively at platoon/company level then great, but as we are all aware, that is not the case everywhere.
Those that wont or cant deploy should either be trained up (in the case of new starters) or be used for training up the new starters. When the unit returns (and we've seen composite companies attched) the returning soldiers should form a cadre to pass on their experience either through lectures or training teams. Not hard to envisage is it?
Eventually composite companies may well become composite Bns and the old and bold stay behinds will effectively become depot staff!
That or stop using the TA for something it wasnt invented for or change the role and put a deployment clause in the contract!
Typical British cheese paring and half baked compromise.
Being a OAP....think I will join the "Home Guard"....looking at a picture of Lord Kitchener!
Sadly the HSF has gone although I would be too knackered for KP guards nowadays!
I don't think the individual is being undermined by the way they're currently being used, indeed in most cases they get a goo deal of benefit from it. The organisation is a completely different kettle of fish.
Lack of opportunity to command your troops when they are mobilised is a massive disincentive to join as a YO, or even to stay in - certainly the kind of leader we want and are specifically recruiting will not be terribly impressed at organising an endless series of going away parties from the outside. I can only speculate as to how corrosive to their morale it would be.
Unless formed sub-units and (eventually) units start deploying in their entirety a la National Guard, I'm convinced the organisation is going to wither from the head down as we fail to attract at leadership level the rigt sort of people. There's certainly an argument to say the TA CoC will lack the operational experience of their Regular counterparts, but how are they to get that experience unless they deploy in role? In any case, I've yet to hear it suggested that a young Rupert fresh from RegCC was unsuitable for operational command due to a lack of experience.
It strikes me that certainly Infantry units are now so scattered - a platoon here, another platoon 40 miles away, that there's little prospect of developing deployable units.
Just look at this:
It's simply a question of cost and utility. Using the TA as we have been doing for the past few years is the most economical way of delivering what the regular army needs: IRs who can be integrated reasonably effectively into regular units and sub-units. It would be nice for the TA to provide formed sub-units and units like the National Guard do, but with the way we're organised now - and with the costs that this will involve - it is never going to happen. It would perhaps be better for the regular army to raise their standards, recruit fewer 'regular' officers, and make more use of the available TA manpower in sub-unit commands at Subaltern/Captain/Major level on operations, leaving a much leaner regular officer cadre to concentrate on back-stabbing and career advancement.
Ex_Stab, I'm sure that the above Bn could form a platoon, or even two, to be attached to their regular Bn counterparts when mobilised. They might not all be best mates at the start, but two weeks in the sausage factory and then two months build up training will forge bonds. Bonds that will tei the Bn together on their return.
I know blokes how went as a platoons worth or IR's and guys who worked in their own platoon and they both have good points, I just think more comes from keeping them together.
Naturally I'm not intending any slur on the units shown on the map, I just think it indicates how dispersed they are. It does make me wonder how much training you can do on a Tuesday night if your full strength is a platoon and you get 1/3 or a 1/4 turn up. Perhaps they get a full turnout every week but unless things have changed immensely I find it unlikely.
Certainly a Bn should be able to mobilise two platoons or even a company, the question is could it moblise 5 platoon or C company? Could it do it given three months notice?
I'm pretty certain that back in the late 80's early 90's we could have mobilised individual companies. We trained at company level most of the time. and at Bn level 3-4 times a year.
Perhaps the memory plays tricks.....
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