UK PPE production & ventilator drive JCB, Dyson, Barbour, SME's etc.

CPAP - Continuous Positive Airway Pressure.
The main indications for positive airway pressure are congestive heart failure and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or milder cases not involving intubation where the patient has a respiratory cycle they can maintain.

The majority going into icu are sedated and intubated because their gas exchange is not exchanging. O2 sats below 90% & dropping.

Basically sedate the patient to subdue respiration. Ventilate. As patient improves reduce sedation to point where hopefully ventilation mode can be switched to a patient demand mode. Still need a level of sedation because of the intubation. You don't want a patient flailing away and ripping god knows what out.
Without wanting to put you on the spot, what is the role of "proning"?
 

DAS

War Hero
Without wanting to put you on the spot, what is the role of "proning"?
Dr's not 100% on the mechanism yet but they've found it helps recovery. They wouldn't do it otherwise. It's labour intensive. Wifey says it takes 5 people to turn patient. Remember this is a patient that is intubated with lots of other stuff attached as well.

Rotation occurs every 8 hours.

I suspect by rotating the patient it stops the lungs getting coated in the shite.
 
Dr's not 100% on the mechanism yet but they've found it helps recovery. They wouldn't do it otherwise. It's labour intensive. Wifey says it takes 5 people to turn patient. Remember this is a patient that is intubated with lots of other stuff attached as well.

Rotation occurs every 8 hours.

I suspect by rotating the patient it stops the lungs getting coated in the shite.
I was wondering as my Dad suffered from decreasing lung capacity due to a variant of Lymphoma. It didn't occur to me until he was to ill to do anything about it but he stopped being able to lie on his front and slept semi-upright.
 

DAS

War Hero
I was wondering as my Dad suffered from decreasing lung capacity due to a variant of Lymphoma. It didn't occur to me until he was to ill to do anything about it but he stopped being able to lie on his front and slept semi-upright.
Sorry to hear that. That's a common enough remedy - sleeping raised. See a patients here doing same.
 
Doesn't work that way when a human is attached. The displays show parameters such as trends. It's the interpretation of the trends that takes the time to learn and the balls to make a decision on your understanding of same. Ventilation is not a simple task. It's very complex and nuanced. See document link I posted just above to get a flavour of the complexity.
When I was training at Draeger after leaving RAF I would literally leave each day with a headache from the concentration required to get the knowledge in.
‘The perfect is the enemy of good enough’
 
Yes, and some support and recognition in the media. The Independent is busy pumping out stuff like this instead:

Dead easy for the media to blame the government for everything when in order to score political points.

There’s only so much (or rather so little) a Minister can actually achieve; the fault undoubtedly lies within the layers of bigot paid, politically correct, unionised “managers” who couldn’t manage the skin off a rice pudding.

It rather connects with the Cummings / MoD thread.
 
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Blogg

LE
Wait on easy for the media to blame the government for everything when in order to score political points.

There’s only so much (or rather so little) a Minister can actually achieve; the fault undoubtedly lies within the layers of bigot paid, politically correct, unionised “managers” who couldn’t manage the skin off a rice pudding.

It rather connects with the Cummings / MoD thread.
Here is a very good explanation:


Does not suit the politicised UK media though
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
There is a shitstorm brewing and at lot of it should properly directed at bodies such as PHE and NHS Procurement, who are attempting to shelter behind the NHS can do no wrong curtain.

Some very critical coverage in professional journals and online offerings, allegations of world class centralised bureaucratic bottlenecks and serial inaction in terms of not reacting to offers of assistance and a big oh yuck the private sector attitude.

Also claims that:

Thousands of swabs awaiting testing were destroyed for spurious reasons, perhaps not entirely unconnected with not wishing to disclose process bottlenecks.

Research institution with 117 machines capable of doing tests offered them for use and has had staff and students on standby for two weeks. After initial enthusiastic noise from senior levels still waiting for any response.

PPE equipment mixed in with general NHS supply chain. Only yesterday was a retail logistics supplier with shedload of spare capacity appointed to manage seperate delivery

PPE demand being met from Brexit preparedness stockpile. Gowns were not included in that.

Disingenuous briefings being given to Ministers and senior officials.

Those with longer memories might think a lot of that sounds oddly familiar


I genuinely hope you're right - about the shitstorm.

The dog-whistle nature of some headlines hides the reality - that not everyone in the public sector/public health is competent and noble. Conversely, it's not all the Evil Tories' fault.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Wait on easy for the media to blame the government for everything when in order to score political points.

There’s only so much (or rather so little) a Minister can actually achieve; the fault undoubtedly lies within the layers of bigot paid, politically correct, unionised “managers” who couldn’t manage the skin off a rice pudding.

It rather connects with the Cummings / MoD thread.
Yes. Trying to explain the difference between 'government' and 'the government' to some people is frustrating. The immediate conflation/confirmation bias tends towards the latter and there's a lot of dog-whistling going on.

Failings in a politicised but supposedly apolitical civil service are blamed on the Tories - because, hey, Evil Tories.
 

Arkanstigger

War Hero
Doesn't work that way when a human is attached. The displays show parameters such as trends. It's the interpretation of the trends that takes the time to learn and the balls to make a decision on your understanding of same. Ventilation is not a simple task. It's very complex and nuanced. See document link I posted just above to get a flavour of the complexity.
When I was training at Draeger after leaving RAF I would literally leave each day with a headache from the concentration required to get the knowledge in.
Agree completely. The Mrs was a critical care nurse and says its not just the ventilator, it's all the other kit and pumps attached to the patient.

She says being in charge of 2 patients as a fully trained nurse, on your own, was daunting. It will be a nightmare as a part trained single nurse on a nightingale ward with half a dozen patients.

It's not simply cracking the odd valve open when something bleeps.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Agree completely. The Mrs was a critical care nurse and says its not just the ventilator, it's all the other kit and pumps attached to the patient.

She says being in charge of 2 patients as a fully trained nurse, on your own, was daunting. It will be a nightmare as a part trained single nurse on a nightingale ward with half a dozen patients.

It's not simply cracking the odd valve open when something bleeps.
A point that needs making about numbers of beds. Beds alone aren't enough. It's staffing them - a point lost when people start shouting about 'cuts'.
 
Without wanting to put you on the spot, what is the role of "proning"?
I posted an anecdotal tweet from a NYC doctor who said it improved patients a week or so ago, this is an explanation of why. Makes sense
 
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DAS

War Hero
I posted an anecdotal tweet from a NYC doctor who said it improved patiens a week or so ago, this is an explanation of why. Makes sense
I love a quick easy to understand explanation.
 
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I love a quick easy to understand explanation.
Good find. Explains why obese peeps might be more at risk .
 

DAS

War Hero
A bright person makes the complex look easy
I work with a bunch of PhD radiation physicists. They are very bright and almost to a man extremely dumb. The women for some reason are bright and not dumb.
 
I work with a bunch of PhD radiation physicists. They are very bright and almost to a man extremely dumb. The women for some reason are bright and not dumb.
Magnet up nostril types ?
Met them before. Can tell you the wot of nuclear reactors but couldn't put a bike chain on.
 
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