UK Politics - Broken Britain ?

Which voting system would you like to see used in UK national elections?

  • First Past the Post (https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/)

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • Single Transferable Vote

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • Additional Member System

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Alternative Vote Plus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Two-Round System

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Alternative Vote

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Supplementary Vote

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Borda Count

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Party List Proportional Representation

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • Dual Member Proportional

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Bagl0ck

On ROPS
On ROPs
I think that we need PR. Yes it means that we'll get the odd loon in parliament, but loons are always a small proportion of the population.

It'll mean more coalition governments, but hopefully it'll mean more people feel represented.

Compulsory voting too, perhaps based upon testing
 

Bagl0ck

On ROPS
On ROPs
What like pass the BFT before you get a vote ? That's me fecked then.
More based upon constitutional, political and economic awareness. Basically how the country works (me ****ed too).

Our education system needs to educate young people on how the country runs
 

Bagl0ck

On ROPS
On ROPs
@Bagl0ck Bearing in mind that educational underachievement seems to be, almost, hereditary is there not a danger of permanently disenfranchising whole swathes of society ?

Surely a universal franchise is based on the "Wisdom of Crowds". We seem to have tried the wisdom of the elites and that's landed us in a pickle. Have a gander: Britain’s liberals have fallen out of love with democracy | Coffee House

Votes for Thickies!!
You are of course right. The basic understanding needs to be weaved into the educational system though
 
I would say the political system itself works, its just the absolute shower of 'Professional' politicians we have, who have never really done much else, who care about Spin etc. The rot started with Blair and everyone else has copied him to win elections.
quite agree. The fact that Jack Dromey an unelected leader of the TUC is a spokesman for Labour is telling. From my perspective that WA that is crafted broadly by the EU and is being dealt with broadly following a path laid out by Labour which is frankly Kafkaesque gives the lie to Lisbon. It is also the reason Labour would never give us a referendum on this issue. A lesser democracy would have fallen apart under the strain. Parliament is not meant to agree the WA( Whether it will or not is a matter to be determined) but the end game is the towel thrown in. The legalities of this are neither here nor there, it is a way point.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
You have to blame the 24% who could not bother to vote on DC's Referendum.
The wording of it with just Remain or Leave was wrong but typical of a man who thought Remain would win big.
The wording of 'Remain or Leave' was not in Call Me Dave's control. It was decided by the Electoral Commission as a neutral form of wording that would not give an advantage to either side.

As an illustration of the flankers politicians try to work, the SNP's preferred question in the Independence Referendum was "Do you agree Scotland should be an independent nation?" That was replaced with a more neutral question.

Wordsmith
 
Reading Daniel Finkelstein's comment piece in The Times this morning one sentence jumped out:

"...I do think the idea that we are stuck on Brexit because there is something wrong with the way we are doing politics is glib and basically incorrect".

To me that begs the question would we be stuck on Brexit now if we were doing politics differently - or had been doing politics differently for the last 30-odd years ? There does seem to be widespread disillusionment with the current state of the UK; Eatwell/Goodwin suggest it seems to have been brewing for some time.

So if we take it that change needs to take place how do we fix things?
  1. Compulsory voting with an option of "None of the above" which is also counted:
    1. and sets a baseline the winning candidate has to beat;
    2. change the present FPTP system to STV (Types of Voting System)
  2. Abolish the HoL:
    1. and use HoC committees to scrutinize legislation.
  3. Have confirmation hearings prior to the appointment of Ministers:
    1. and other senior appointments;
    2. and any employment offers for former public servants or former representatives;
    3. review all public accounts in accordance with GAAS (Generally Accepted Auditing Standards - Wikipedia).
  4. Close Westminster and move it to modern purpose-built premises outside London:
    1. with good quality accommodation supplied, in a purpose-built estate, to remove the games played with second homes;
    2. strong regional parliaments;
    3. only the most important powers reserved for central government.
  5. Make undeclared lobbying a criminal offence.
So no I don't agree with Lord Finklestien - there's a lot of fixing that could, and should, be done.
House of Lords debates widely considered to be superior
 
I think that we need PR. Yes it means that we'll get the odd loon in parliament, but loons are always a small proportion of the population.

It'll mean more coalition governments, but hopefully it'll mean more people feel represented.

Compulsory voting too, perhaps based upon testing
It can also mean more representation for extremist groups or unstable government as the norm

In Germany it has worked well, in Italy it has fared badly hence the change to their system to encourage more stable governments
 

JCC

Old-Salt
House of Lords debates widely considered to be superior
I'm not sure you're right there - it was always their claim but that surely was back in the heredity days?

Now it seems to be stacked with retired politicians and assorted hangers on: Adonis, Madelson, Finklestien, Ashton et al seem to have a role in shaping the legislation of the country and I have no idea why.

If you were to insist on a separate revising chamber does it have to be so big and there must be better ways to select the members other than the ex-PMs tennis partner ?

For me the advantage of bringing the function to HoC committees is that it will give backbenchers a real job in scrutinizing government rather than the ad hoc mess of indicative voting we see now.
 
UK Politics - is it broken beyond repair?

I would say so , I`ve have always voted Conservative but will never vote for them again unless there was a radical change .
 
If you were to insist on a separate revising chamber does it have to be so big and there must be better ways to select the members other than the ex-PMs tennis partner ?
UK has 48 counties, bye-bye HoL, hello UK Senate and 48 newly voted in Thegns scrutinising the lower house and its output.

Drastic, but worth it just to put the shits up the London-obsessed politicos.
 
Would you still be able to work the bolt quick enough to get ten rounds up the range in time?
You jest, but I started with the No4 so could finish, no problem. SMLE with big FO bayonet 'to stick it up um --- they do not like it' may be in the current situation?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
You have to blame the 24% who could not bother to vote on DC's Referendum.
The wording of it with just Remain or Leave was wrong but typical of a man who thought Remain would win big.

If we have a 2nd referendum it needs to be more clearer on what people are voting for and why.

But, if a 2nd referendum is staged then I think British politics will be ruined with both Tory & Labour being hit at the next election with voters voicing their disapproval of the way the whole brexit saga has been handled in parliament.

And this could lead to nutters, loonies, far right, far left, independents and the unwashed become MP's
Frankly political map changes and parties dying off and new ones rising is part and parcel of political life. Parliaments history is a long one littered with examples of failures fading into obscurity as the electorate wake up and change their representatives!
Change here is a good thing!
 

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