UK Politics - Broken Britain ?

Which voting system would you like to see used in UK national elections?

  • First Past the Post (https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/)

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • Single Transferable Vote

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • Additional Member System

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Alternative Vote Plus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Two-Round System

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Alternative Vote

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Supplementary Vote

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Borda Count

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Party List Proportional Representation

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • Dual Member Proportional

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

JCC

Old-Salt
Reading Daniel Finkelstein's comment piece in The Times this morning one sentence jumped out:

"...I do think the idea that we are stuck on Brexit because there is something wrong with the way we are doing politics is glib and basically incorrect".

To me that begs the question would we be stuck on Brexit now if we were doing politics differently - or had been doing politics differently for the last 30-odd years ? There does seem to be widespread disillusionment with the current state of the UK; Eatwell/Goodwin suggest it seems to have been brewing for some time.

So if we take it that change needs to take place how do we fix things?
  1. Compulsory voting with an option of "None of the above" which is also counted:
    1. and sets a baseline the winning candidate has to beat;
    2. change the present FPTP system to STV (Types of Voting System)
  2. Abolish the HoL:
    1. and use HoC committees to scrutinize legislation.
  3. Have confirmation hearings prior to the appointment of Ministers:
    1. and other senior appointments;
    2. and any employment offers for former public servants or former representatives;
    3. review all public accounts in accordance with GAAS (Generally Accepted Auditing Standards - Wikipedia).
  4. Close Westminster and move it to modern purpose-built premises outside London:
    1. with good quality accommodation supplied, in a purpose-built estate, to remove the games played with second homes;
    2. strong regional parliaments;
    3. only the most important powers reserved for central government.
  5. Make undeclared lobbying a criminal offence.
So no I don't agree with Lord Finklestien - there's a lot of fixing that could, and should, be done.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
I would say the political system itself works, its just the absolute shower of 'Professional' politicians we have, who have never really done much else, who care about Spin etc. The rot started with Blair and everyone else has copied him to win elections.
 
I don't know the answer, although I will say the calibre of politicians has definitely fallen in my lifetime and that's across the political spectrum
 
You have to blame the 24% who could not bother to vote on DC's Referendum.
The wording of it with just Remain or Leave was wrong but typical of a man who thought Remain would win big.

If we have a 2nd referendum it needs to be more clearer on what people are voting for and why.

But, if a 2nd referendum is staged then I think British politics will be ruined with both Tory & Labour being hit at the next election with voters voicing their disapproval of the way the whole brexit saga has been handled in parliament.

And this could lead to nutters, loonies, far right, far left, independents and the unwashed become MP's
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Close Westminster and move it to modern purpose-built premises outside London:
  1. with good quality accommodation supplied, in a purpose-built estate, to remove the games played with second homes;
  2. strong regional parliaments;
  3. only the most important powers reserved for central government.
Close Westminster (it needs closing before it gets millions of pounds'worth of structural repairs anyway). Give every MP a one-off allowance for a laptop, camera and a backdrop stating MP's name, party and constituency.

Come business in the house, each broadcasts from his home office in his constituency. Set up a red button function so that constituents can select whom to watch, or the main event, just like Sky Sports. Anyone not broadcasting gets a big grey screen stating ABSENT. Nobody broadcasts sound unless the Speaker's technical assistant has selected sound after the Speaker has announced. Instant end to grandstanding, showboating and boorish braying.

5 minutes after they're done, they can be back doing constituent work. Wipes out First Class travel, second homes in London, subsidised canteen and bar, outrageous expense accounts.

Got a committee meeting? Just use your laptop and an industry strength chat system like IBM Sametime Connect, just like above. I used to do it regularly.

Once the palace of Westminster has been saved, it won't be needed by politicians. Open it to tourists like the Tower. Roberto the long distance lorry driver is your mother's live in lover.
 
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I would say the political system itself works, its just the absolute shower of 'Professional' politicians we have, who have never really done much else, who care about Spin etc. The rot started with Blair and everyone else has copied him to win elections.
'Professional' politicians are definitely one part of the problem however, I would suggest the adversarial nature of our political system is equally to blame.

It distorts all potential outcomes to a tribal win/lose paradigm, which is frequently unhelpful.
 

JCC

Old-Salt
@dogmeat no please no - definitely NOT a Brexit thread. Rather an attempt to tease out the causes and failures that led us here.

Brexit is, I believe, a symptom of something deeper in British (should I say English?) society.

We've heard about Leavers complaining about neglect and the failure of the elite to listen to them etc. We've also heard how the politicians recognize that estrangement and feel their pain etc - but how do we actually restore respect and support for the process of how we chose to govern ourselves in or out of the EU?
 
1. Remove Westminster.
2. Install me....as beloved leader.
3. Purchase a few hundered JCB's.
4. Start digging the mass graves.
5. Build a sturdy wall at a 45 degree angle and place sand in front, with a conveyor belt running past it that leads to the mass graves.
6. Place 9 x GPMG's in SF mode along the route of the conveyor belt.
7. Invite selected members of the population (probably 30-40%) to attend a 'garden party with free gifts etc'.
 
1. Remove Westminster.
2. Install me....as beloved leader.
3. Purchase a few hundered JCB's.
4. Start digging the mass graves.
5. Build a sturdy wall at a 45 degree angle and place sand in front, with a conveyor belt running past it that leads to the mass graves.
6. Place 9 x GPMG's in SF mode along the route of the conveyor belt.
7. Invite selected members of the population (probably 30-40%) to attend a 'garden party with free gifts etc'.
That's Comrade Corbyn's persec blown
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
@chrisg46 You go with Finklestien then - all's fine and dandy and it just needs a polish ?
Oh definitely not find and dandy. The system itself works and has worked for a very long time. However, its those who use the system who have brought it to its knees where we currently have a choice between a Marxist government and an incompetent one.
Its been coming for a while, a lot of it down to "tradition" - i went to the HoC PM question time when i was at college (cough many years ago) and it was utterly embarrassing - i had seen better behaved school kids in detention.
 

JCC

Old-Salt
@chrisg46 I still don't see how you can say the system works when it has delivered the current mess? PMTM is flying to Brussels to beg, the Unions within the UK are slowly falling away, the population is split 50/50 and utterly detests the other etc etc. If the system was working then none of this would be true.
 
@chrisg46 I still don't see how you can say the system works when it has delivered the current mess?
Thanks for confirming that this is indeed yet another Brexit thread. In the wrong place.
 
@dogmeat no please no - definitely NOT a Brexit thread. Rather an attempt to tease out the causes and failures that led us here.

Brexit is, I believe, a symptom of something deeper in British (should I say English?) society.

We've heard about Leavers complaining about neglect and the failure of the elite to listen to them etc. We've also heard how the politicians recognize that estrangement and feel their pain etc - but how do we actually restore respect and support for the process of how we chose to govern ourselves in or out of the EU?
I'd remove the B-word from the title if I were you.
 

JCC

Old-Salt
@exbluejob Nope - don't agree. I think our current position has been brewing for decades and Brexit is merely a symptom. Whether we stay or we go there is a lot, I believe, that needs to be sorted out in the UK and society in general. If so many people are unhappy with the status quo then something's wrong.

If the whole Brexit thing is resolved, either way, this Friday the good ship UK is still taking on a bad list. I'm suggesting we need to take action rather that muddling along as though everything is fine & dandy.

So no - not a Brexit thread (I hope). Leaving or staying in a trading organizations isn't that important over several decades which is where we're steering.

Too many mixed metaphors - must stop - now.
 

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