Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Sphincter_Control, Jul 15, 2007.
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Its about bloody time.
Interment has never worked in the past - the political fallout always outways the benefit - NI, Guantanamo etc... I can see nothing in the Police proposal that will change this. In order to win this conflict we need to maintain the moral high ground, if we change the rule of law to deal with then then they will have scored a mojor victory against our way of life.
Why do we never learn from history?
I can't think of anything more guaranteed to play into the hands of the Islamist extremist. Internment was the best recruiting tool that PIRA ever had; Guantanamo Bay has done a similar job for AQ. Do we really want Little Rissington or some other ex MOD Base to be another rallying point for these swine?
And it probably won't work, as has been shown by the Long Kesh and Gitmo. The int required for it to be effective would have to be phenomenally good, and the fact that a bunch of Doctors just set up several mini-BBQs at either end of the country suggests that despite the best efforts of MI5, SB etc, indicates that they don't have tabs on every player.
Are we really prepared for civil liberties to be curtailed to this extent? I am far from being a limp wristed lentil eater, but if I'm thinking twice about this from a human rights perspective, then your average Guardianista / Liberty supporter will consider internment in UK as tantamount to building another Auschwitz.
However I would support a return of the Death Penalty for Terrorists. Any PR storm would be worth weathering to ensure that this ultimate tool of justice was returned to the armoury of the State. And boy, would there be a PR storm.
I think that the police could do with longer to complete their enquiries, but indefintly is rather a long time. What I would like to see that those who are here illegally and have been in trouble are shipped out of Britain and Europe as whole never to return. If they do return to any part of europe then they are locked for about ten years
I personally would support the death penalty or life without possibility of parole for any support or direct act of terrorism against the crown or her servants.
Internment is a useful tool and could be used to it's full extent if required later, however for initial political purposes it might be best to dip a toe in the water with the above measures.
The comments from Lord Carlile are both accurate and give rise to the question as to why more has not been done to protect our borders. This must be one of the most important security issues so far, but has been placed on the backburner of things to do.
Really Op Banner is still alive and kicking, albeit in another place and another time.
The one thing the UK does NOT need to do is throw petrol on the fires of Flaming Islam [and others]. Internment has an excellent track record of failure: it provides a focus for adverse publicity; it enhances recruitment; and is largely extra-judicial in the eyes of the World.
I have voted for expulsion [wherever it is possible, given the random distribution of UK passports]. Back in the 60s, Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew was faced with a crippling dock strike. He informed the Unions that this would cripple the economy and thereby damage the State .... it was therefore treason. Strikers would have their citizenship revoked and be "invited" to leave the country. There was no strike.
Expulsion and revocation of citizenship would seem to offer a way forward, although no doubt some legal minds on ARRSE will point out the pitfalls.
Spot on. Our borders are porous. We need to establish a Border Force Now.
Take the much vaunted proposals to give Illegal Immigrants citizenship Off the table. Combined with rapid removal of undesirables Now, including the many foreign Imans who are poisoning young members of the Muslim community.
At that point, start dealing with the enemy within.
Think about Mr Wolfgang and Maya Evans. If you give the police powers you can guarantee that they will be abused.
The above might work if :
a) The individual was a legal citizen.
b) They were concerned that they wished to remain a citizen.
c) If they didn't have such rights of appeal and due time to spend taxpayers money whilst waiting for judgement.
d) The legal system was not so slow and biased towards the illegal immigrant/asylum seeker...etc.
We are a cuddly nation and now a soft target for anyone who has a grudge. Time for some harsh laws to be rushed through the merry men of the houses of commons and lords and protect what we have left before it's too late.
I can see the attraction of this to certain elements within HMG. But, internment, or anything similar but dressed up slightly differently would fall foul of the European Human Rights Act. That's even if it made it through Parliament without being severly ammened by those MP's who would never countenance voting for such a measure.
Yes, we have used internment in times of war. In WWII thousands of German nationals were interned on the Isle of Mann, during what was a dire national emergency when the UK's continued existence as an independant state was at risk. But this is different. Many of those who would presumably be subject to internment are British Citizens. This is despite many of them being so in body, but not in spirit.
Even if it did get through Parliament without major amendment, there will still be the inevitible legal challenges. Organisations such as Amnesty International and Liberty (under the leadership of ARRSE favourite Shami Chakrabati) can and will take anything resembling internment all the way to Strasbourg and the European Court, who would almost certainly declare it illegal under human rights legislation.
As already mentioned there are the very obvious NI parrallels. I would not want to see a repeat of the bungled attmept to use internment against PIRA in 70-71 repeated in Leeds, Bradford, London et al. It has already been stated in this thread, but bears repeating as it is a valid point. Internment would only serve to radicalise elements of the Moslem population in the UK who to date lead normal lives, just like most of the remainder of the population and who support the rule of law and the bodies, such as the Police, who enforce it. The very real risk of the authorities getting it wrong, or for an arrest to spark serious rioting is a factor that cannot be ignored.
It is understandable that the Police, Security Service etcare considering this, but in the current climate I feel that it cannot work and would only serve to be counterproductive.
Only because I suspect they've become too bloody lazy and fat to actually do any work!
I've worked with quite a few Police Officers over the years, both in NI and elsewhere. The vast majority are dedicated ot their jobs and are certainly not lazy. (Though there are a few fat ones)...
If this is implemented, the government might as well start recruiting stands for the inevitable jihadist surge.
Not if you lock all the followers of islam up.........
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