UK move on mercenaries

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by armchair_jihad, May 29, 2007.

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  1. In full,dwp_uuid=34c8a8a6-2f7b-11da-8b51-00000e2511c8.html
  2. It's surely a matter for the South African government, at the last election The RSA was not a constituency of the British Parliament. Of course if a precedent is set other countries might stop their citizens becoming mercenearies which would deprive us of the services of the Gurkhas for a start and more than a few Fijians.
    It actually says a lot about our government when they are worried about foreigners not being able to serve in the British Army because they've made such a mess of it that enough Britons won't join it to do fulfil the conflicts that they have embroiled us in.
  3. This keeps coming up now and again. The couple of SA's I've spoken to are not worried.

    If your working for a PSC it is a private company and not a government. If your serving in a Commonwealth Army I think that is under an exclusion (mentioned in the article).

    This is what I was told in conversation a few months back and a few months before that by a different fella, be interested to see what comes of it and whether that law will actually balls anything up, or just get ignored.
  4. Having just retuned to the UK after being in SA for some years and serving at a fairly senior level in their reserves, I know that there is a secondary issue to the mercenary problem.

    The SANDF (National Defence Force) has very few young white volunteers, less than 1%, and it irks the current government that they serve in teh British Army. This is a way of forcing young men, who want to serve, to sign up into an army that, by means of Affirmative Action, will prevent them from achieving any ambitions they may have.
  5. Next door but 1 to me, is a SA in the Marines and he isnt bothered about it. In fact some of his mates, ex SA Forces, came over recently to join the Marines, no bother.
  6. That's exactly what they are trying to stop with this new legislation.
  7. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Well, I'm sure that when we kick out this gummint, the chances of SA ex-forces guys getting citizenship so that they can sign on the line will improve. At least I hope so.

    I'm all for SA guys working for us, or doing our dirty work in private firms.
  8. we had a SA guy on Telic 8 last year when this news first reared it head, troop staffy and troopy got together and told him he was on the first plane out of there, he was gutted and ranting and raving, they let him pack all his kit, hand his weapon in at the armoury, and made him report to the SSM for final debrief, got to the office SSM told him to fcuk off and get back to work, one of the best windups ive ever seen, hahaha
  9. LMAO!!!!! Now that is a good wind up!!

    On another note, maybe it is time for this gobment to start giving commonwealth soldiers citizenship when they sign on the dotted line and complete their service.
  10. Having gone the other way, from the UK and currently serving in the SA reserves I think there is something of a flaw in this logic. Why would the government want to force white people to join the army if they didnt want them in it, or more to the point why would they invest a great deal of money training them if they didnt really want them. For me the reason young white people are less likely to join the SA armed forces, particularly the army as I think you will find white joining figure for the SAN and SAAF are considerably higher is that the pay is terrible even for junior officers never mind enlisted men/women, the conditions of service are farily abysmal and there is little scope to see to much of the world (burundi yes the world no) and the fact is very few white South Africans fall into a socio-economic demographic that would accept working for such terrible pay.

    The UK forces on the other hand offer the chance to earn a salary that at a 14 to 1 exchange rate will give them a nice nest egg, a chance to get British citizenship if they desire and the chance to travel and do things and see places they otherwise never would. Not to mention the chance to fight in a war (that on terror) that many South Africans really beleive in, perhaps more than their British and American counterparts do these days.

    I think it would be very sad if South Africans serving in the British forces was stopped because such service has a long and honourable history, so I hope an agreement can be reached, but I also think that the proposed law is a fair one.
  11. Seanie

    I agree with what you say and didn't really express myself well. They are hoping that by making it difficult to serve in another country's armed forces, those that want to serve might end up serving in the SANDF, regardless of pay and conditions as they then have no alternative. However, it is currenlty v. difficult for a young white man to make a career while hampered by AA.
  12. I can well understand the dilemma for young South Africans. The British Army values them as soldiers. The Law in South Africa makes their service with the British Army illegal. It attaches a penal sanction in consequence of doing so, should those young men ever return to the land of their birth.

    If they serve, contrary to the law of the RSA, they can never go home. They can never even visit their families or friends.

    What is to be the reward for acting contrary to the law of the country of their domicile and serving as a Commonwealth Citizen in an Army of a country in which they have no legal right of abode when their service is ended?

    You are of no further use to us and you must return home, since we are unable to confer UK citizenship upon you and allow you to remain in the United Kingdom at the end of your contracted service.

    If we do allow you to remain old boy, we set a precedent for all Commonwealth citizens who will take the view that service in the British Army is the means by which they can circumvent Asylum and Immigration Law. We would have to give the right of abode to the Gurkha's, the Kenyans, the Fijians, the Kenyans, the Ugandans, the Zimbabweans, the Australians, the New Zealanders and every other Commonwealth Citizen who fills the ranks of our Army!

    If we make an exception for you old chap, we upset the rest of the Commonwealth since we send them a message that we value your services rather more than theirs.

    Being British Ministers, trained in Machievellian the art of duplicity, deception and deceit for which we are rightly renowned throughout the world, we will hold out to you a promise that we hold your interests dear to our heart. We will assure you that we value your service and that you will be rewarded for it. In so doing, we will create an expectation in your mind that you will be allowed to remain here at the end of your valuable service, and will reinforce that expectation from time to time by assuring you that we are continuing to negotiate with the South African Government on your behalf!

    We will then deport you at the end of your service having never actually given you anything in writing that you have a permanent right of abode although we might be able to manage a non-binding 'comfort letter'!

    Sorry if that sounds harsh old chap but we are British Ministers and expediency is our trade. It is expedient to claim the benefit of your service and to cast off the burden of taking responsibility for you when that service ends - exactly the same as we do with our own former soldiers!

    How many serving men and women can put their hands on their heart and say with conviction that they actually trust the word of a British Politician?

    That concludes the opening speech for the prosecution.
  13. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

    The vast majority of SAN's joining the British army are probably of British extraction - ie either their parents or grandparents were born in the UK.

    In the first case they are eligible for a UK passport and in the second are eligible to live and work in the UK on a visa, after four years they can claim British citizenship.

    The South African forces at the moment are a shadow of their former selves and not particularly attractive for anyone interested in a military career.
  14. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Totally agree Iolis.

    If a man or woman has it in mind to demonstrate their commitment to a potential new host country buy offering their lives to serve it beforehand, that is surely demonstration enough.

    We'd all much rather that than demonstrating such commitment through a forced/arranged marriage or escaping poverty.

    I've said this before - no better institution in the world exists whereby a would-be immigrant can learn the finest lessons about our culture and country whilst being able to demonstrate fully their commitment towards it.
  15. Grownup_Rafbrat

    Grownup_Rafbrat LE Good Egg (charities)

    So is the answer that all immigrants, whether economic, or seeking asylum, should serve five years in the Forces to 'earn' their citizenship? Might have some merit if recruitment / training could handle it.