UK military to get biggest spending boost in 30 years

[Lindermyer]

The Tornado nicknamed Mig-Eater was thought to have hit a MiG-29 with a JP233 bomblet, but post-war examination suggests that it was a Mirage F1

Well since they played Migs in just about every 80s film - we should let that one slide

 

[PhotEx]

So in a nutshell......


99.9% of bombs dropped by the RAF since 1945 have been on sandal wearing folk assorted, but the only credible means of delivering bombs in the future is $150 million stealth fighters.

99.9% of cruise missile strikes are delivered by non penetrating platforms such as the ancient B-52, but it’s apparently impractical to deliver them with a non penetrating drone,

Drones can have their comms jammed, but apparently, the same jamming cannot jam a $150 million fighters Comms.

Drones can be swatted from the sky by SAM systems and $150 million fighters, except when drones go into denied airspace and smash high end Russian SAM systems unmolested by fighters.

Drones can never be viable air defence platforms because you need a pilot with ‘situational awareness’ sat in a $150 million fighter to fly under remote direction from the ground or an AWACs to a set point and release a missile at a designated target and his ‘situational awareness’ is the Radar picture of the target he can’t actually see.

Drone launchers can apparently be ‘smoked’ by gun tottin’ $150 million fighters flying under 2,000ft, rendering their invisible forms rather visible and very vulnerable to everything from machine guns to light AAA....

all future bombing and CAS will be against peer adversaries and carried out in highly denied airspace full of SU-30’s and S-300‘s and only $150 million fighters, not cheap drones with an RCS the size of a small bird, can hope to survive.

 

[Lindermyer]

So in a nutshell......


99.9% of bombs dropped by the RAF since 1945 have been on sandal wearing folk assorted, but the only credible means of delivering bombs in the future is $150 million stealth fighters.

I suspect thats only true if you are counting the likes of Iraq in 91 in that figure

99.9% of cruise missile strikes are delivered by non penetrating platforms such as the ancient B-52, but it’s apparently impractical to deliver them with a non penetrating drone,

Really want to cite a source for that,

Regardless it ignores that unles you have a B52 which can carry a Tomohawk equivelant - you are limited to what can be lifted by a fast Jet type - Said missiles will be shorter ranged and so unsuprisingly the ability to penetrate defended airspace is required

Now a UAV could do this - but not youre cheap COTS wankwaffen

Drones can have their comms jammed, but apparently, the same jamming cannot jam a $150 million fighters Comms.

Your wunderwaffen Amozon drones can be jammed by an inconvienient phone single

Drones will require far more comms to control them so more suceptible to disruption
Drones especially your cheap 50K suiciders - will have limited power and options to change frequencies.
The ground station for your fantasy cheap wonder drones is equally limited

Typhoon - with its operator onboard - isnt so affected by jamming of Comms once its been assigned a target
It has far greater onboard power and can change frequencies at the touch of a button.

Drones which can do what Typhoon can are going to be similar in size shape and cost.

Drones can be swatted from the sky by SAM systems and $150 million fighters, except when drones go into denied airspace and smash high end SAM systems unmolested by fighters.

Yawn - strawman arguments delibertly obsfucating the point.

Drones can never be viable air defence platforms because you need a pilot with ‘situational awareness’ sat in a $150 million fighter to fly under remote direction from the ground or an AWACs to a set point and release a missile at a designated target and his ‘situational awareness’ is the Radar picture of the target he can’t actually see.

Until it isnt or you need to evade an incoming missile

Drone launchers can apparently be ‘smoked’ by gun tottin’ $150 million fighters flying under 2,000ft, rendering their invisible forms rather visible and very vulnerable to everything from machine guns to light AAA....

Ah right - so youre calling for cheap uber drones because according to you Tanks, infantry , SAMS EW vehicles have all been smited with impunity .

Meanwhile its ridiculous to suggest A Drone launcher could be identified and smited from above - have you any idea how stupid you are making yourself look.

all future bombing and CAS will be against peer adversaries and carried out in highly denied airspace full of SU-30’s and S-300‘s and only $150 million fighters, not cheap drones with an RCS the size of a small bird, can hope to survive.

Strawman - No ones claimed that,

However we are back into the Why have Typhoon / F15 / F35 / bombing terry Taliban when a Hawk / Tuccano / Super Bronco could do the Job.

A much covered point which amounts to - because one can do peer the other cant and we can only afford to run one of them.

Of course as ever you ignore the (inconvinient) fact the RAF does indeed operarate slow long loitering armed UAS able to observe and strike against terry taliban.

 

[Graculus]

So in a nutshell......


99.9% of bombs dropped by the RAF since 1945 have been on sandal wearing folk assorted, but the only credible means of delivering bombs in the future is $150 million stealth fighters.

Typhoon not LO

99.9% of cruise missile strikes are delivered by non penetrating platforms such as the ancient B-52, but it’s apparently impractical to deliver them with a non penetrating drone,

Nope, see Reaper/Protector. We have rather a lot of experience in this field.

Drones can have their comms jammed, but apparently, the same jamming cannot jam a $150 million fighters Comms.

Only on planet Zog. The difference is how much has been spent on hardening, jamming resistance and encryption. Fit yer zombie killer dronez wot cost tuppence with link 16 and tell me how much they cost?

Drones can be swatted from the sky by SAM systems and $150 million fighters, except when drones go into denied airspace and smash high end SAM systems unmolested by fighters.

We'd not use SAM or aam for most.

Drones can never be viable air defence platforms because you need a pilot with ‘situational awareness’ sat in a $150 million fighter to fly under remote direction from the ground or an AWACs to a set point and release a missile at a designated target and his ‘situational awareness’ is the Radar picture of the target he can’t actually see.

If they were viable air defence systems, we'd be all over them. They aren't. Yet

Drone launchers can apparently be ‘smoked’ by gun tottin’ $150 million fighters flying under 2,000ft, rendering their invisible forms rather visible and very vulnerable to everything from machine guns to light AAA....

The drone launcher systems should have had a good visiting by Brimstone and similar.

all future bombing and CAS will be against peer adversaries and carried out in highly denied airspace full of SU-30’s and S-300‘s and only $150 million fighters, not cheap drones with an RCS the size of a small bird, can hope to survive.

You appear confused, top tip, not being able to defeat your high end opposition will lead to disappointment.

Is your name Gummidge? More strawmen there than ole Worzel's extended family, 4 bubble group, Chrimbo get together.

 

[Tricky1982]

How are you getting them to actually "swarm"? To be aware of other drones, and share information among the group? Let me guess, they'll pass their GPS fix to each other?

The Chinese managed it for a civvy light display, sure they could do it with military tech as well

 

[Graculus]

The Chinese managed it for a civvy light display, sure they could do it with military tech as well

There's no "could" about it, they've already done it. With 48 I think. Not the point though.

 

[PhotEx]

The easy way I'd defend against a swarm of those (Yunec Typhoon H Plus), is to either stay 600 metres from their operator (operating range 520m) or shoot the person setting them up before they take off.

How are you getting them to actually "swarm"? To be aware of other drones, and share information among the group? Let me guess, they'll pass their GPS fix to each other? A jammer that'll shut that down totally, can be built at home for £10 of components and the biggest part of it is the PP9 battery. If you're not using GPS, then suddenly your "sense and share" has become much more complicated, noisy and expensive...

It's one of those terms thrown around with gay abandon, yet actually doing it turns out to be a lot more difficult. Unless you're a gullible sucker like @PhotEx who fawns over every passing fad as the Total Transformation Of Warfare Making All Before It Obsolete, of course.

There's good money to be made by getting this stuff to work reliably, robustly and effectively - but it turns out to be rather harder to do for real, than in Powerpoint and CGI.

it’s almost as if people have been studying the problem of GOS denial.
although the Israelis seem to be doing rather well at GPS that jam resistant and uses multiple sources of GPS signal such as Glonass, Baidu etc to provide redundancy.

Autonomous Navigation for Drone Swarms in GPS-Denied Environments Using Structured Learning

Drone swarms are becoming a new tool for many tasks including surveillance, search, rescue, construction, and defense related activities. As their usage increases, so does the possibility of...

link.springer.com

 

[Slime]

The Chinese managed it for a civvy light display, sure they could do it with military tech as well

I posted the same/similar vid on a different thread relating to drones a while ago.
The vid is very impressive for what it is, and that is a swarming light show, in a set location very close to where the drones were launched.

As with everything mentioned in this thread, there is a huge difference between a drone only needing to fly in a set pattern for a very short time, and only needing to emit light and a drone used for a serious military purpose.

The drones in the vid can’t/couldn’t:

Fly in all weather
Fly for long periods
Fly for long distances
Carry multiple sensors
Carry heavy weight
Fly very fast

It’s always worth noting that in the last few decades Western, Chinese and Russian UAVs have operated in areas with very little anti air capability, and yet even those high end UAVs have been targeted.

In the same time frame Turboprop aircraft have been touted as cheap counter insurgency platforms for places like Iraq, but have been seen as easy targets/death traps due to their low speed and lack of armour or defences.
This leads us to see an aircraft capable of 250-350 mph being seen as too slow to survive, while a drone/UAV doing half that speed as a wonder weapon

 

[Slime]

it’s almost as if people have been studying the problem of GOS denial.
although the Israelis seem to be doing rather well at GPS that jam resistant and uses multiple sources of GPS signal such as Glonass, Baidu etc to provide redundancy.

Autonomous Navigation for Drone Swarms in GPS-Denied Environments Using Structured Learning

Drone swarms are becoming a new tool for many tasks including surveillance, search, rescue, construction, and defense related activities. As their usage increases, so does the possibility of...

link.springer.com

OK, I recently said you should be a general, now you should be a Field Marshall.

Stop wasting your time here, get on the phone to all the Western World leaders and pass on your knowledge of anti jam able GPS.

With the worlds most sophisticated air forces still training for denial of GPS in PEER ops I’m sure they would love to know your secrets.

OR,

Those who do this for a living, know that peer forces will be able to do things you don’t know about, and there are solid reasons they train for lack of AWACs and lack of GPS in major exercises.

British forces already have anti jam/anti spoof devices*, but peer opponents don’t just give up.

*Of course, you could already know the U.K. has this tech, and are just continuing your ‘Israeli love fest’.

 

[Pteranadon]

The idea of this big cyber organisation raises some alarm bells for me. The idea of a loosely supervised organisation monitoring and hacking ill defined external and internal enemies of the state raises some ethical and legal questions. But putting these to one side this also seems to involve a huge expenditure on IT by the government under conditions in which questions about functionality, delivery dates and value for money are far too secret for anyone to know.

Which relative of the current government is going to be asked to run this operation?

 

[PhotEx]

OK, I recently said you should be a general, now you should be a Field Marshall.

Air Forces have Marshals, do keep up at the back.

 

[Slime]

Air Forces have Marshals, do keep up at the back.

Funnily enough, I already knew RAF ranks.............how surprising in a military site.

The rank is still apt, as your complete lack of knowledge on this subject prevents you getting an air rank.

Cast your mind to the series of Blackadder covering WW1 and you will be on the right track.

You should of course know that the RAF doesn’t have a rank entitled as just ‘Marshall’, but facts have never got in your way before so I won’t worry about it now.

 

[Stonker]

Air Forces have Air Marshals,

do keep up at the back.

 

[PhotEx]

do keep up at the back.

the equivalent of Field Marshal is Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

both correctly spelt with one ‘l’

 

[Slime]

the equivalent of Field Marshal is Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

both correctly spelt with one ‘l’

To avoid anyone now correcting your punctuation errors, let’s just leave you to carry on with your UAV ‘love in’.

 

[Stonker]

To avoid anyone now correcting your punctuation errors, let’s just leave you to carry on with your UAV ‘love in’.

Puh-lease God - NO!!

Have we not suffered enough?

 

[Slime]

Puh-lease God - NO!!

Have we not suffered enough?

But the inaccuracies could always spark conversation.

Look at us being told the Israelis are looking into anti jamming for GPS.
While both anti jamming and spoofing have been a ‘thing’ for some time, and anti jamming is already in service for lots of things, it could always become a talking point.

Obviously not to the point where someone needs to type beadwindow or similar, but just for chit chat.

 

[SkippedOnce]

And as inevitably as night following day, despite the numbers of military personnel put on the streets to assist the NHS, with security, et al ...

Public sector pay freeze (apart from NHS workers)

'The GMB union has criticised the government's plan to "pause" public sector pay.

'Nurses, doctors and others in the NHS will get a pay rise but other public sector workers will not.

'That includes firefighters, teachers, the armed forces, police, civil servants, council and government agency staff.'

Spending review 2020: Five announcements that drew strong reactions

Rishi Sunak's spending review has elicited strong reactions from across the board as the UK struggles with its biggest fall in output for more than 300 years.

news.sky.com

 

[kinross_special]

The Tornado nicknamed Mig-Eater was thought to have hit a MiG-29 with a JP233 bomblet, but post-war examination suggests that it was a Mirage F1

still a fair effort though from Crab Air - getting a Tornado to drop a Mirage onto a Mig from that height.

 

[jrwlynch]

still a fair effort though from Crab Air - getting a Tornado to drop a Mirage onto a Mig from that height.

Should have seen what the carriage & clearance trials for dropping Mirage F.1s were like...