UK military museums - what's going on?

nice guy

Old-Salt
I said a long time ago if the MoD are serious about this BLM shit then a lot of Regimental colors are going to have to end up on a bonfire..any Reg who has any links to Africa or India wave bye bye.
 
Thank goodness Bovington is well curated and directed.

...by an art historian.

If memory serves David WIlley was an art historian before he entered the museums library, then he moved on to running the museum. But he's only just taken up that slot, so we'll see what happens.

Also, you'd not be cheering on Bovy if you were paying attention. It looks shiny and nice on the surface, but when you dig into it there's some unhappy things going on. They have a horrible habit of taking invaluable pieces of armour and letting them either rust away, or scrapping them.
Examples of the former include the Churchill Gun Carrier. Of which one remains as a hard target, the other has been rescued by Bovy. Granted it's in a shit state, so Bovy listed it as unable to uneconomical to repair. But I don't think that leaving it outside next to the car park to rust away is going to help matters. It's one of those things were you can see both sides of the argument. But even a non-running restoration could be useful.
Or you have the prototype Fv221 which Bovy sent for scrapping some time in the mid 1990's, is one that gals me the msot and I know of. But there are many others. Bovy has a habit of quietly shuffling some stuff off to the scrap merchants.
Myself and other tank historians will often follow a thread of a tanks existence, and it ends at Bovy. We'll then find out it got scrapped.

Bovy is also pretty much World of Tanks the live experience these days, as they're deepthroating the Belarusian company. While it has paying in a lot of capital ( I guess there is a limit to how many coke and hookers you can get through) it means that the museum has taken a direction that many Friends of the tank Museum have felt disquiet at. What will happen when the money tap is turned off (WoT has been in minimal activity mode for many years now. It's aim is to extract as much cash as possible before the serves shut down) is going to be interesting.
 
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...by an art historian.

If memory serves David WIlley was an art historian before he entered the museums library, then he moved on to running the museum. But he's only just taken up that slot, so we'll see what happens.

Also, you'd not be cheering on Bovy if you were paying attention. It looks shiny and nice on the surface, but when you dig into it there's some unhappy things going on. They have a horrible habit of taking invaluable pieces of armour and letting them either rust away, or scrapping them.
Examples of the former include the Churchill Gun Carrier. Of which one remains as a hard target, the other has been rescued by Bovy. Granted it's in a shit state, so Bovy listed it as unable to uneconomical to repair. But I don't think that leaving it outside next to the car park to rust away is going to help matters. It's one of those things were you can see both sides of the argument. But even a non-running restoration could be useful.
Or you have the prototype Fv221 which Bovy sent for scrapping some time in the mid 1990's, is one that gals me the msot and I know of. But there are many others. Bovy has a habit of quietly shuffling some stuff off to the scrap merchants.
Myself and other tank historians will often follow a thread of a tanks existence, and it ends at Bovy. We'll then find out it got scrapped.

Bovy is also pretty much World of Tanks the live experience these days, as they're deepthroating the Belarusian company. While it has paying in a lot of capital ( I guess there is a limit to how many coke and hookers you can get through) it means that the museum has taken a direction that many Friends of the tank Museum have felt disquiet at. What will happen when the money tap is turned off (WoT has been in minimal activity mode for many years now. It's aim is to extract as much cash as possible before the serves shut down) is going to be interesting.
I don’t know about the other RTR Regts, but 2RTR had a small museum, put together by the Regts long term Provo Sgt “The Sherriff”.
On the final amalgamation, a lot was handed over to The TM along with a lot of Regimental Silver. Cherry picked the lot and sold the rest off.
They destroyed a lot of the Regts history by doing what they did.
 
...by an art historian.

If memory serves David WIlley was an art historian before he entered the museums library, then he moved on to running the museum. But he's only just taken up that slot, so we'll see what happens.

Also, you'd not be cheering on Bovy if you were paying attention. It looks shiny and nice on the surface, but when you dig into it there's some unhappy things going on. They have a horrible habit of taking invaluable pieces of armour and letting them either rust away, or scrapping them.
Examples of the former include the Churchill Gun Carrier. Of which one remains as a hard target, the other has been rescued by Bovy. Granted it's in a shit state, so Bovy listed it as unable to uneconomical to repair. But I don't think that leaving it outside next to the car park to rust away is going to help matters. It's one of those things were you can see both sides of the argument. But even a non-running restoration could be useful.
Or you have the prototype Fv221 which Bovy sent for scrapping some time in the mid 1990's, is one that gals me the msot and I know of. But there are many others. Bovy has a habit of quietly shuffling some stuff off to the scrap merchants.
Myself and other tank historians will often follow a thread of a tanks existence, and it ends at Bovy. We'll then find out it got scrapped.

Bovy is also pretty much World of Tanks the live experience these days, as they're deepthroating the Belarusian company. While it has paying in a lot of capital ( I guess there is a limit to how many coke and hookers you can get through) it means that the museum has taken a direction that many Friends of the tank Museum have felt disquiet at. What will happen when the money tap is turned off (WoT has been in minimal activity mode for many years now. It's aim is to extract as much cash as possible before the serves shut down) is going to be interesting.
I've met David Willey (curator) a number of times. Yes a qualified art historian BUT like many of us, passionate about military history and tanks in particular, from childhood. It's his dream job. David has brought his art history conservation knowledge to Bovington to bring in the wrecks and conserve what they have. There is only so much space, time and money. They have also formed strong national and international links. Don't forget it takes time to do things. Regarding the World of Tanks sponsorship, what's the problem ? It keeps admission prices down and brings in funds. If you have concerns about morality, where to draw the line BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi? If its the money tap, we'll that is no different to any other sponsorship.

I am not whiteknighng however I believe you are doing the museum, staff, trustees and friends a disservice.
 
IWM should rotate suitable gear on loan to give little museums a centrepiece for that year and bring in the visitors/coin, they do it for free and all the money goes on keeping the roof on.
 
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I've met David Willey (curator) a number of times. Yes a qualified art historian BUT like many of us, passionate about military history and tanks in particular, from childhood. It's his dream job. David has brought his art history conservation knowledge to Bovington to bring in the wrecks and conserve what they have. There is only so much space, time and money. They have also formed strong national and international links. Don't forget it takes time to do things. Regarding the World of Tanks sponsorship, what's the problem ? It keeps admission prices down and brings in funds. If you have concerns about morality, where to draw the line BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi? If its the money tap, we'll that is no different to any other sponsorship.

I am not whiteknighng however I believe you are doing the museum, staff, trustees and friends a disservice.

My point was it's not as well run as it can seem from the outside.

I've met David WIlley a few times, hell, I even credit him in the opening chapters of one of my books. But equally, I know a few FOTM types and they've voiced concerns (granted some may have had an axe to grind, but not all of them).
Me & my historian friends can point to tanks that were unique until the TM decided to scrap them. There's more than a few collections of AFV's about the country which could likely take on rare and unique tanks. Ask for a tender from them, not send them to be scrapped. That, anyway you cut it, is unconscionable. It's like the IWM and its expensive remodelling. There are many ways you could have used the assets lost to further history preservation and study, but somehow they've taken the worst one.

As to Wargaming, if I was worried about morals I wouldn't do history! What does alarm me is twofold. First what happens when the cash taps are turned off? An organisation can get used to operating at a set level of income, then suddenly has to contract. That contraction can lead to uncertinaty, which is twofold with the closing of the FoTM.
Equally, the focus on WoT and 'Wikipedia history' is somewhat alarming. They seemed to be pushed to get their video content out, and they'll dust of Fletcher wheel him out and get him talking. But, they make no attempt to fact check the content they put out, and despite having such a huge library, the videos are full of errors, but because it's come from the TM, and so many people are redirected to the TM from WoT, it means that errors and inaccuracies become entrenched.
 
Buy when you can, garages are cheap to build and tanks don't rust like a Alfa-Romeo.... if is rare, get it and store it.
 
.

Also, you'd not be cheering on Bovy if you were paying attention. It looks shiny and nice on the surface, but when you dig into it there's some unhappy things going on. They have a horrible habit of taking invaluable pieces of armour and letting them either rust away, or scrapping them.
Examples of the former include the Churchill Gun Carrier. Of which one remains as a hard target, the other has been rescued by Bovy. Granted it's in a shit state, so Bovy listed it as unable to uneconomical to repair. But I don't think that leaving it outside next to the car park to rust away is going to help matters. It's one of those things were you can see both sides of the argument. But even a non-running restoration could be useful.
Or you have the prototype Fv221 which Bovy sent for scrapping some time in the mid 1990's, is one that gals me the msot and I know of. But there are many others. Bovy has a habit of quietly shuffling some stuff off to the scrap merchants.
Myself and other tank historians will often follow a thread of a tanks existence, and it ends at Bovy. We'll then find out it got scrapped.
This is why museums need to attract volunteers and enthusiasts. I reckon you could easily find a bunch of tank nuts who'd pool their time and resources and completely renovate the above items.
 
My point was it's not as well run as it can seem from the outside.

I've met David WIlley a few times, hell, I even credit him in the opening chapters of one of my books. But equally, I know a few FOTM types and they've voiced concerns (granted some may have had an axe to grind, but not all of them).
Me & my historian friends can point to tanks that were unique until the TM decided to scrap them. There's more than a few collections of AFV's about the country which could likely take on rare and unique tanks. Ask for a tender from them, not send them to be scrapped. That, anyway you cut it, is unconscionable. It's like the IWM and its expensive remodelling. There are many ways you could have used the assets lost to further history preservation and study, but somehow they've taken the worst one.

As to Wargaming, if I was worried about morals I wouldn't do history! What does alarm me is twofold. First what happens when the cash taps are turned off? An organisation can get used to operating at a set level of income, then suddenly has to contract. That contraction can lead to uncertinaty, which is twofold with the closing of the FoTM.
Equally, the focus on WoT and 'Wikipedia history' is somewhat alarming. They seemed to be pushed to get their video content out, and they'll dust of Fletcher wheel him out and get him talking. But, they make no attempt to fact check the content they put out, and despite having such a huge library, the videos are full of errors, but because it's come from the TM, and so many people are redirected to the TM from WoT, it means that errors and inaccuracies become entrenched.

One positive is that it has broadcast Bovington far and wide. I think we both have points and both support the museum in the broad sense and will have to agree to disagree on some areas.
 
One positive is that it has broadcast Bovington far and wide. I think we both have points and both support the museum in the broad sense and will have to agree to disagree on some areas.

Oh I think we can all agree it's good that it exists, and the publicity is good, and Bovy seems to be a tank nerd Mecca at current. The Cash is allowing them to do more.

But there's some problems, that are long running, and are actually harmful to history.
 
Oh I think we can all agree it's good that it exists, and the publicity is good, and Bovy seems to be a tank nerd Mecca at current. The Cash is allowing them to do more.

But there's some problems, that are long running, and are actually harmful to history.
Oh I think we can all agree it's good that it exists, and the publicity is good, and Bovy seems to be a tank nerd Mecca at current. The Cash is allowing them to do more.

But there's some problems, that are long running, and are actually harmful to history.

Let me introduce you to the IWM's Blenheim bomber some time. That things crashed (and very nearly once had a runaway chieftain crash into it) more times than Windows ME.
That wouldn't be a runaway Chieftain... just some tankies enjoying the rare moment before the engine pack fails again, and again, and again :)
 
That wouldn't be a runaway Chieftain... just some tankies enjoying the rare moment before the engine pack fails again, and again, and again :)

By tankies, you mean the MT wing of the Duxford aviation society, and the engine was missing, but the brakes failed.
 
By tankies, you mean the MT wing of the Duxford aviation society, and the engine was missing, but the brakes failed.
Sorry.... didn't normally see Chieftains deployed without engines or brakes in BAOR....... I think you need a bigger airfield.
 
That's where you're going wrong then. Apprently they free wheel really well.
Guess the safest place was inside the tank!

What was the old saying..."What's the definition of air superiority.... a Chieftain at the end of their runway".
 
...by an art historian.

If memory serves David WIlley was an art historian before he entered the museums library, then he moved on to running the museum. But he's only just taken up that slot, so we'll see what happens.

Also, you'd not be cheering on Bovy if you were paying attention. It looks shiny and nice on the surface, but when you dig into it there's some unhappy things going on. They have a horrible habit of taking invaluable pieces of armour and letting them either rust away, or scrapping them.
Examples of the former include the Churchill Gun Carrier. Of which one remains as a hard target, the other has been rescued by Bovy. Granted it's in a shit state, so Bovy listed it as unable to uneconomical to repair. But I don't think that leaving it outside next to the car park to rust away is going to help matters. It's one of those things were you can see both sides of the argument. But even a non-running restoration could be useful.
Or you have the prototype Fv221 which Bovy sent for scrapping some time in the mid 1990's, is one that gals me the msot and I know of. But there are many others. Bovy has a habit of quietly shuffling some stuff off to the scrap merchants.
Myself and other tank historians will often follow a thread of a tanks existence, and it ends at Bovy. We'll then find out it got scrapped.

Bovy is also pretty much World of Tanks the live experience these days, as they're deepthroating the Belarusian company. While it has paying in a lot of capital ( I guess there is a limit to how many coke and hookers you can get through) it means that the museum has taken a direction that many Friends of the tank Museum have felt disquiet at. What will happen when the money tap is turned off (WoT has been in minimal activity mode for many years now. It's aim is to extract as much cash as possible before the serves shut down) is going to be interesting.

The French have the right idea. Their tank museum at Saumur is a state instritution and is funded by the French Army. IIRC the head of the museum is a serving Army officer.

A great museum as well...
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
IWM should rotate suitable gear on loan to give little museums a centrepiece for that year and bring in the visitors/coin, they do it for free and all the money goes on keeping the roof on.
Bovington do this. A couple of years ago they got the Aberdeen Jagdtiger (P) and had a great collection of Tigers (131 obv; two King Tigers, one with each turret: Jagdtiger: the weapon from a vanishingly rare Sturmtiger iirc; the only known Schmalturm from a Panther 2, which morphed into the King Tiger).

I think Light Dragoons have done well with their museum. Top floor of the Discovery Museum, Newcastle with their professional museum skills, and set up by my old troop leader.

 

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