UK Joins European Army.....

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Tango34_UK, Jul 13, 2005.

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  1. SUNDAY TELEGRAPH 10/7/05
    Christopher Booker's notebook http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?&_DARGS=/core/lowerHeaderBarFrag.jhtml

    Europeanisation of the British Army is coming on the double

    In what must rank as one of the most bizarre events in the history of British defence policy, a junior minister recently admitted that the cost of a single vehicles-and-weapons project for the British Army has soared in less than a year from £6 billion to £14 billion, making it by far the most costly military equipment programme ever planned.

    On a day when the front-bench defence teams were in Portsmouth for the Trafalgar review, only two MPs were present in Westminster Hall: Don Touhig, the minister, and Ann Winterton, the Tory MP who initiated the debate.

    What made this even more astonishing is that the project itself, planned as part of the EU's rush to establish its own integrated armed forces, independent of Nato, rules out any future British military partnership with the US, thus spelling an end to the Anglo-American "special relationship".
    The subject raised by Ann Winterton was the Future Rapid Effect System (FRES), the Ministry of Defence's plan to equip the British Army with a new generation of satellite-coordinated vehicles and weapons systems.

    Although planning for this project has been shrouded in secrecy, the aim of FRES - a cut-price version of the Future Combat System being developed for the US Army - is to equip the British Army to take part in the EU's 60,000-strong "rapid reaction force".

    Planning for this is being co-ordinated by the new European Defence Agency (EDA), set up in Brussels in January under a former MoD civil servant, Nick Witney. It was also for this purpose that the Government last year announced the restructuring of the Army, involving the abolition or merger of 19 historic regiments.

    On June 28, Mr Touhig dropped into his reply to Ann Winterton the admission that FRES will now involve the purchase of 3,500 vehicles at a cost of £14 billion (£4 million per vehicle). He did not add that this represents a massive escalation of the plan announced last year to spend £6 billion on 900 vehicles.

    The procurement cost now therefore equates to £600 for every taxpayer in the country. Furthermore the total "lifetime cost" of the original 900 vehicles, over 30 years, was given last year as £49 billion. When I asked the MoD last week for the "lifetime cost" of the 3,500 vehicles now proposed (which pro rata should be over £100 billion) it failed to reply.

    Mr Touhig also assured Ann Winterton that FRES would not rely on Galileo, the satellite system planned by the EU as a rival to the US's GPS. Galileo, he insisted, is only intended for civilian use. His officials clearly did not tell him that FRES must be built to a "European standard", which will ensure that it must rely on EU satellites rather than GPS and other US systems.

    This will make it impossible for FRES-equipped forces to operate alongside US forces in a battle zone, since each system will identify the units that are not integrated with it as potential enemies.

    The speed at which Britain is now being sucked into the new "European defence identity" is breathtaking. In another recent series of parliamentary questions, Ann Winterton eventually forced the MoD to come clean about another £166 million Army contract, for light multi-purpose vehicles to replace its Land Rovers and Saxons.

    The MoD originally stated that this was to be built by British Aerospace (the division which was formerly Alvis). But further questioning revealed that these 401 "Panthers" are in fact to be purchased, all but the roof, from an Italian firm Iveco, at £413,000 each, twice the cost of a Rolls Royce and four times that of the equivalent US Humvee.

    This follows the MoD's remarkable but almost unreported announcement last November that the Army's biggest ever trucks order, worth £1.6 billion, was going to Man-Nutzfahrzeuge in Germany.

    To the dismay of military experts, this was in preference to bids from two US-British consortia offering trucks of superior performance - which would also thus have retained thousands of British jobs - because EU defence procurement policy now insists that contracts with wholly "European" firms should be preferred to those with a US component.

    If the £20 billion we are shelling out for the useless Eurofighter, thanks to Michael Heseltine back in 1986, seems a high price to pay for EU defence integration, we can now see this was only the start of it. What is even more startling is the lengths to which our Government will go to hide it from view.
     
  2. £413,000 EACH!!! that can't be right surely, that's incredible. Fcking EU making money off the Brits again, I can't see the Frog and Krauts paying that much for a bloody Squaddiemobile. I hate Europe I really do, I'm sure they make every possible attempt to get back at Britain for kicking their asses in every war for the last few hundred years. £413,000, fcking hell.

    RustyBayonet is going to storm around the building muttering '£413,000, fcking Europe' for a few hours.
     
  3. Unfortunately, this is utter crap. Booker is a political hack whose life mission is to bash anything European at every opportunity. This story is lifted from his mate Richard North's website (as discussed on the serious thread).

    There is absolutely no evidence that any "European standard" exists that requires Galileo. There is also absolutely no reason to believe that any IFF system anyone has ever heard of will rely on which satellite system different vehicles are using - after all, that would mean that anyone with a civvy GPS would be shown as Blue Force, no? There is also absolutely no evidence that Booker knows anything at all about electronics, satellites, or defence policy, as shown by his imbecile statement that FRES is designed to "equip the British Army to take part in the EU's 60,000-strong "rapid reaction force"". So it's not about expeditionary warfare in the context of the War on Terror then? I challenge anyone to quote this "standard".

    Further on, Booker finds it a little too difficult to mention that Iveco is..ahem..Ford Europe's trucks division. Or didn't he want to mention it?

    And finally, Rusty: how can the EU be making money off the Brits again when it doesn't own Iveco or participate in the FRES or Panther contracts in any way?
     
  4. Here's t'other thread: Link

    And anyway, the yanks always identify us as potential enemies anyway...
     
  5. FRES IS desgined to be used by rapid deployment forces (SO far only UK ones) one of it's specs was it must be below 26 tons, the load ability of a Herc. hence why it had to ahve the Plastic armour. The bit that costs on the whole project is the electronics.
     
  6. Requirement to fit into a C130 has been removed (POD must be devestated). It doesn't have any armour at the moment either, on the basis that it doesn't exist yet.
     
  7. So - if it won't fit in a C130, what the ****'s it FOR? That just brings us back to square one - we've only got the four C17s. Why build FRES when you can buy An124s and send Challenger 2?
     
  8. If it doesn't fit in a C-130, and barring a large buy of C-17/A-400 to carry a larger variant, it's a complete waste of time and money. It only made sense as something that could be easily airlifted in to do jobs light inf couldn't. If you've got to take it there the old fashioned way then you might as well take heavy kit which performs better.
     
  9. Its obviously another opportunity to waste money, gleefully seized; the ultimate aim making our integration into an 'Organised and Fiscaly Responsible' European Army seem all the more plausible.



    Tin Foil Hat on
     

  10. The armour exists:
    http://www.qinetiq.com/home/case_studies/defence/plastic_pank.html

    As far as I'd red the C-130 requirment was still in, but if it isn't then why haven't we ran like buggery from this bloody vehicle, we got Warrior, ASBV and FMRAV so why do we need FRES?
     
  11. Work out how long it will take to deploy (the as yet not designed) FRES by air and how long it will take a properly protected armoured force by sea. How many ac loads to get a FRES Bde in theatre (and at what cost) over what time span. Add to it the future potential claims by those killed and injured through fighting in vehicles not up to the job protectionwise and then ask oneself what is the saving.

    We need a range of vehicles in the intermediate role, but they must complement the main fighting force not replace it.