UK is to deploy Apache attack helicopters to Libya

#4
'Mission Creep' at has been stated. Maybe Mr Call-Me-Dave also wants to be a 'War leader' like Teflon B'Liar and Doc McRuin??

Attack Helicopters, Hmmm!! That will mean possibly a land base somewhere if this run into weeks/months. Maybe take over one of the old RAF Bases when the UK 'owned' Libya years ago. Another 'Ghanistan maybe. Now that will be popular amongst local Arabs.... More bodies heading for Calais and Dover Port to live the Life of Reilly off the UK Benefits Systems, aided and abetted by the Stinking 'Oomin Rites' law firms and Bed Crunching, Yoghurt Wetting Lefties. Hmmm - now where have I heard all this before. Oh yes, the 'Daily Wail'.

Oh, I really need to up my Meds and let Matron take me in hand.....
 
#6
Well they are either using the Apaches out of [primary] roll or bending/breaking the terms of the UNSCR.
??

Have you read UNCSR 1973? I am no fan of the mission creep of this op, but AH in Libya if employed protecting civilians is within the scope of UNSCR 1973.
 
#8
The Sqn deployed are the 'expeditionary Sqn'. They are qualified "flat-top" operations.

And it's 'role' (in which they are employed) not 'roll' (as to list i.e. Nominal roll).
 
#9
Aren't they just another 'airframe'? If Typhoon and Tornado, cruise missiles and (I expect) drones are flitting about, what's the difference? They still aren't putting boots on the ground.
 

Gramps

Old-Salt
Kit Reviewer
#10
Not one to split hairs, but, are there not 'advisors' on the ground already? I'm sorry, but this is creeping from Fast Air to AH (something that can hang around in the area longer). It really only can lead to ground holding.
 
#13
The deployment or the thread? I.e. a bunch of dullards wanting to debate littoral operations and carrier warfare from a position of having plenty of opinions but sod all knowledge?
I am now an expert in naval operations after getting all my boats out in the bath and watching captain pugwash but will naturally defer to rear admiral tropper.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Lord Fisher of Kilverstone famously said "moderation in war is imbecility" and he had a point. The problem with an operation like Libya is what I call acclimatisation'. Those organising the police action assume that a dictator like Gadaffi will roll over and die as soon as a few of his tanks are hit, so they fly a relatively limited number of sorties. Gadaffi (strangely enough) doesn't immediately announce his surrender, so an increased number of sorties are flown, and the rate of tank destruction goes up. Gadaffi (strangely enough) doesn't roll over and die.

It's decided that the operation needs to be ramped up still faster, so the next wonder weapon is rolled out (Predator?) Gadaffi (strangely enough) doesn't roll over and die. So the next mighty weapon is rolled out - 'cry Apache and let slip the dogs of war...'

The problem is all this ramping up is by small increments - Gadaffi gets accustomed to a particular level of destruction, so the next level (more sorties or a different airframe) does not seem much worse than what has preceded it. He's gradually got acclimatised to losing 10 tanks a day, so losing 12 a day doesn't seem so bad.

If we were going to frighten Gadaffi out of power, he needed to be hit massively at the start.

What comes next - borrow the last airworthy Vulcan and do Black Buck 8?

Wordsmith
 
T

Tinman74

Guest
#16
Lord Fisher of Kilverstone famously said "moderation in war is imbecility" and he had a point. The problem with an operation like Libya is what I call acclimatisation'. Those organising the police action assume that a dictator like Gadaffi will roll over and die as soon as a few of his tanks are hit, so they fly a relatively limited number of sorties. Gadaffi (strangely enough) doesn't immediately announce his surrender, so an increased number of sorties are flown, and the rate of tank destruction goes up. Gadaffi (strangely enough) doesn't roll over and die.

It's decided that the operation needs to be ramped up still faster, so the next wonder weapon is rolled out (Predator?) Gadaffi (strangely enough) doesn't roll over and die. So the next mighty weapon is rolled out - 'cry Apache and let slip the dogs of war...'

The problem is all this ramping up is by small increments - Gadaffi gets accustomed to a particular level of destruction, so the next level (more sorties or a different airframe) does not seem much worse than what has preceded it. He's gradually got acclimatised to losing 10 tanks a day, so losing 12 a day doesn't seem so bad.

If we were going to frighten Gadaffi out of power, he needed to be hit massively at the start.

What comes next - borrow the last airworthy Vulcan and do Black Buck 8?

Wordsmith
While i am not comfortable with the double standards being applied in the middle east - southern med, area of operations. I do believe that WAH64 (only the army could desnigate an Attack chopper a wah) will do more that you suggest, although with out sand on wellies it aint going to work. It doesnt take a rockape to figure out why theres an awful lot of booties bobbing around the med on tin cans,
 
#17
Why is a broke country with a public debt of 76.5% the GDP (2010 figures), see below:

List of sovereign states by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Acting like the world's policeman?

We should be cutting costs minding our own back yard rather than throwing away treasure and possibly, lives, on another war. Surely there must be cheaper ways to depose of the Gaddafi clan than a war? Like a spec. ops raid or a missile at the right place, at the right time?
 
#18
Despite what the assorted NATO AFs seem to have convinced our respective politicians, you can't win a war with air strikes alone. Turns out, the people you're bombing tend to think it's cowardly.

Now if only the rebels weren't so shit at getting their land war on...
 
#19
Why is a broke country with a public debt of 76.5% the GDP (2010 figures), see below:

List of sovereign states by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Acting like the world's policeman?

We should be cutting costs minding our own back yard rather than throwing away treasure and possibly, lives, on another war. Surely there must be cheaper ways to depose of the Gaddafi clan than a war? Like a spec. ops raid or a missile at the right place, at the right time?
We'll never get any oil if we do the fecker on the quiet! :)
 

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