UK gobment wanted to redraw the ROI/Six Counties border

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Bugsy, Apr 26, 2009.

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  1. This is the first time I've heard about this. Apparently the UK gobment under Heath had plans drawn up to forcibly relocate Catholics and Protestants within Ireland, ceding territory to the ROI for them to live on.

    It seems that it wasn’t any basic thoughts about the fundamental moral and ethical principles involved which prevented the plan from being instigated, but rather the fear of attracting the opprobrium of the rest of the world. This was in 1972, not 1872, by the way. It appears the UK still had the “colonial habit” even then.

    Here are a few articles on it:

    http://www.barnesreview.org/html/nov2008lead_120.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2601577.stm

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jan2003/ire-j11.shtml

    Does anybody have any more information on this?

    MsG
     
  2. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Who cares, they probably considered nuking the place as well, if they didn't they should have.
     
  3. They also had plans at the same time, to move all the catholics into west belfast, and move all the prods into east belfast. Seems and i have the info somewhere if i could be arrsed, that the UDA and IRA actually got wind and held talks to resist the plans together.

    Which may have actually allowed us to nuke belfast.
     
  4. I suspect it was more pragmatism than anything else that scuppered it. The IRA wouldn't have been content with just that and all it would have achieved would have been moving their log bases a few miles closer to Belfast.
     
  5. What they should have done, is move everyone from the South to the North and vice versa, that would have really confused them.
     
  6. No, if they wanted to confuse them they would have used a spade and a fork and asked them to take their pick.
     
  7. The 1921 Treaty meant that counties with a Catholic majority became part of the North in order to create a viable state.

    The start of the troubles saw thousands of refugees moving south of the border.

    The treaty allowed for a border commission at a later date in order to decide any changes to the border. It never happened! If it had due to gerrymandering the results would have meant the size of NI wouldn't be reduced.

    The South also had plans to invade the North.
     
  8. It all started going wrong when the Empire started to fade.

    Bring back the Empire, when the finest country in the world (that would be England) ruled 1/4 of the Earths land area, and 1/4 of the Earths population in an Empire upon which the Sun never set.
     
  9. Maggie mused on expelling all the Catholics and putting up a sort of Berlin wall style border.
    civil servants explained why that wasn't a feasible plan :roll:
     
  10. It did indeed - which stopped when 3 Bde formed up in the Barracks in Shoeburyness in 1970 and moved to S Armagh.

    Along with 16 Para Bde - and their WOMBATS! And Capt Fuckwit (James Kelly) of Irish Intelligence got found out!

    Google Plan W for WW2 stuff! The deep water Ports of Donegal were of vital importance.
     
  11. 'It seems that it wasn’t any basic thoughts about the fundamental moral and ethical principles involved which prevented the plan from being instigated, but rather the fear of attracting the opprobrium of the rest of the world. This was in 1972, not 1872, by the way. It appears the UK still had the “colonial habit” even then'

    And your problem is! - Like it or lump it the troubles of thr 60s/70s involved and included those from the UVF days of 1912/1914. They grew up with, lived with and dealt with, what they saw as the threat to their way of life. A good p?*s take of it all is Spike Milligans 'Puckoon'.

    also 'and troubles saw thousands of refugees moving south of the border' - scuse my ignorance, but what happened to the sizeable Prot communities in the 'Free State?.
     
  12. Not a new story at all. I believe it was discussd in Toby Harndens "Bandit Country" amongst many other works. Don't have access to them at present so I can't check that fact/assertion.

    My understanding was that the proposal to hand over chunks of S Armagh and Fermanagh were met with absolute horror ... by the Republic.
     
  13. An elderly mentor of mine, now long departed would, back in the day, oft voice the opinion that the populations of Ireland and The Netherlands should be exchanged.
     
  14. Nope...

    The counties of Donegall, Cavan and Monaghan were NOT included in Northern Ireland although they were (and, of course, still are) part of the Province of Ulster.

    This was because those three counties did have a Catholic majority.
     
  15. I may be wrong here, Rickshaw_major, but I don't think that's what your man meant. It was Michael Collins himself who made plans to invade the Six Counties (in 1922, I believe) , even sending units up to the border and supplying them.

    MsG