UK aviation and BREXIT

Does it matter in the context of aviation?

Comply, or don't fly.

Aircraft accident rates have come down for a reason.

What do you think the chances of obtaining insurance for an aircraft, it's crew, it's operator and passengers would be if we simply ignored international law?

The price of tickets?
So, which midnight are all these planes going to fall out of the skies?

Bear in mind, that all foreign registered aircraft will also be grounded in the UK and I'm sure that the big airlines are not going to be bothered about their aircraft and crews are marooned indefinitely.

Out of curiosity, how much extra fuel and time, will the average Boeing 747, say from Frankfurt, need to transit to New York, as an example? More fuel = less pax and /or cargo.
 
So, which midnight are all these planes going to fall out of the skies?

Bear in mind, that all foreign registered aircraft will also be grounded in the UK and I'm sure that the big airlines are not going to be bothered about their aircraft and crews are marooned indefinitely.

Out of curiosity, how much extra fuel and time, will the average Boeing 747, say from Frankfurt, need to transit to New York, as an example? More fuel = less pax and /or cargo.
What's your point?

I'm pointing out the compliance issues, and you seem to be arguing that this will be ignored.

No one has argued aircraft will fall out the skies on March 30th. Just that the aircraft will be uninsured, uncertified, the pilots unlicensed, the passengers uninsured and air traffic control unrecognised.

It won't be ignored and I predict a late submission by the UK to become a rule taking subordinate to EASA, or the FAA.

This will be driven by what the government decides to do.

Perhaps hard brexit is the medicine this country needs to cut through the exceptionalism and bluster?
 

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What's your point?

I'm pointing out the compliance issues, and you seem to be arguing that this will be ignored.

No one has argued aircraft will fall out the skies on March 30th. Just that the aircraft will be uninsured, uncertified, the pilots unlicensed, the passengers uninsured and air traffic control unrecognised.

It won't be ignored and I predict a late submission by the UK to become a rule taking subordinate to EASA, or the FAA.

This will be driven by what the government decides to do.

Perhaps hard brexit is the medicine this country needs to cut through the exceptionalism and bluster?
This might be of interest to you, there is a section in brexit in the Summer newsletter.

Scenario 2: The EU and UK fail to reach agreement on the UK exit or the terms of an agreement are such that the UK will no longer be party to the US-EU safety agreement or part of the EASA system. The CAA would need to function as an independent civil aviation authority apart from EASA, and would need to re-establish its aircraft certification capability.
The FAA and UK have been working to draft revisions of the US–UK Implementation Procedures for Airworthiness (IPA) from 2002 to address both of these possible scenarios as appropriate. These efforts are on track to have the necessary documents ready for internal FAA coordination this fall, and if necessary, signed by March 29, 2019.
Interesting but, which may be a typo, but if not indicates that the UK and USA have been expecting this since 2002, and that all the necessary work has been done, agreement ready to sign.

That would put the EU's nose out of joint! I would not be in the least surprised though if the EU say they do not recognise this agreement.
 
This might be of interest to you, there is a section in brexit in the Summer newsletter.


Interesting but, which may be a typo, but if not indicates that the UK and USA have been expecting this since 2002, and that all the necessary work has been done, agreement ready to sign.

That would put the EU's nose out of joint! I would not be in the least surprised though if the EU say they do not recognise this agreement.
I think the 'from 2002' refers to when this agreement was put in place: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_ce..._agreements/baa_basa_listing/media/UK-IPA.pdf
 
Considering all of the hoohaa about flights next year, the cost of our tickets for our holiday next year, including extra leg room, extra baggage, etc, have decreased by around £40pp.
You do realise that inthe small print if the UK removes itself from EASA not only will there be no fights but no refunds let alone any compensation. These protections only exist because you have a ticket backed by various schemes that require a Valid Civil Air Regulator.

The airlines red flagged this in Feb 2017 as I recall. (lok back through the thread as I an 99% certain the links are there) They said "we can't guarantee flights after the 29th March." giving just over 12 months warning. So they are covered. My last flights booked are at the end of Feb 2019. They are covered.
 
You do realise that inthe small print if the UK removes itself from EASA not only will there be no fights but no refunds let alone any compensation. These protections only exist because you have a ticket backed by various schemes that require a Valid Civil Air Regulator.

The airlines red flagged this in Feb 2017 as I recall. (lok back through the thread as I an 99% certain the links are there) They said "we can't guarantee flights after the 29th March." giving just over 12 months warning. So they are covered. My last flights booked are at the end of Feb 2019. They are covered.
Muh muh muh muh muh.
Jesus, there has to be some intelligence in the remain camp, somewhere!
 
You do realise that inthe small print if the UK removes itself from EASA not only will there be no fights but no refunds let alone any compensation. These protections only exist because you have a ticket backed by various schemes that require a Valid Civil Air Regulator.

The airlines red flagged this in Feb 2017 as I recall. (lok back through the thread as I an 99% certain the links are there) They said "we can't guarantee flights after the 29th March." giving just over 12 months warning. So they are covered. My last flights booked are at the end of Feb 2019. They are covered.


Guaranteed flights booked for June 2019, UK to Cyprus - that’s Cyprus in EUtopia
 
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Fibber…

Guaranteed flights booked for June 2019

Yes, of course they are..... READ THE SMALL PRINT they are guaranteed excepting war, disaster, force majure etc. However in the very small print this all rests on having a valid Civil Aviation Regulator. All bets (and refunds, compensation and guarantees ) are off if HMG removes the Civil Aviation Regulator. Which it will do by ditching ECJ.

Now I have a choice believe some anonymous person/dog etc off the internet who talks bolocks OR a couple of senior CAA people talking to me face to face...... Hmmm difficult one that.
 
Yes, of course they are..... READ THE SMALL PRINT they are guaranteed excepting war, disaster, force majure etc. However in the very small print this all rests on having a valid Civil Aviation Regulator. All bets (and refunds, compensation and guarantees ) are off if HMG removes the Civil Aviation Regulator. Which it will do by ditching ECJ.

Now I have a choice believe some anonymous person/dog etc off the internet who talks bolocks OR a couple of senior CAA people talking to me face to face...... Hmmm difficult one that.
They say don’t take notice of hysterical voices on the interwebs, the planes will fly and thanks for the booking.

Henny Penny, the sky, nor the planes are falling...... now calm down and go lie down in a dark room until you stop being so overwrought and emotional
 
They say don’t take notice of hysterical voices on the interwebs, the planes will fly and thanks for the booking.

Henny Penny, the sky, nor the planes are falling...... now calm down and go lie down in a dark room until you stop being so overwrought and emotional
As you say don't take notice of idiots on the internet. I didn't I was talking face to face with two senior CAA people. They do know what they are talking about. You clearly don't.

Thinking about it the CAA, FAA RAeS, BA, Virgin, Etc etc have all put it writing. There have been enough links to those documents in this thread. You on the other hand sound like a petulant teenager.

BTW yes the planes will fly after 29th MArch because the UK will be inthe ECJ (and EASA) for at least a decade after.
 
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International law doesn't exist as such. It is merely a set of agreements between states/nations and has no ramifications if one decides not to play by them.
Ah, @chillsjag doesn't understand either and just bashes the mong button.
 
Ah, @chillsjag doesn't understand either and just bashes the mong button.
only for mong's you said "International law doesn't exist as such. It is merely a set of agreements between states/nations and has no ramifications if one decides not to play by them."

Where 191 countries agree to work one way if 1 country decided to do something different the other 191 say fine but you can't play with us. There are santitions applied all the time but in this case they don't need to be. The prerequisite for flying in to some one's airspace is you meet a cdrtain set of requirements, if you don't you can't land. Or if you land you can't take off...

As the pilots don't want to be branded criminal who is going to fly these aircraft anyway?
 
Quick question. We leave the EU. The EU says that our CAA issued, on behalf of the EU, certification is no longer valid and no CAA licenced aircraft or pilots can fly.

Therefore no EU authorised certification is valid in the UK..........

Which is worse. No UK airlines or pilots can fly or no EU airlines or pilots can fly into UK controlled airspace ?
 

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