UK aviation and BREXIT

And then you blow it…
OK there are NO PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS

There are solutions but that means no flights in/out of the UK for 8-10 years.

In 8-10 months of no flights in/out of the UK most of the money earning parts of UK PLC will have disappeared.

The UK will make Albania look like paradise about 7-9 years before the CAA can start doing flights again.
So there is not practical solution to leaving EASA

Also the UK Leaving EASA will cause the EU a lot of problems like how are they going to handle the extra capacity when Heathrow is shut. I suspect the Irish will love it. Turn Shannon in to a major hub for Transatlantic.
 
Andy, We know you don not understand any of this but there is no need to keep proving it every day.

The ABSOLUTE minimum time to set up A Civil Aviation Regulation System is 5 years. this is international law. However the requirements needed for doing it 5 years are already blown. The reality is 8-10 years. THEN you can have a reciprocal agreement with EASA and the FAA

BTW you could do it in 6 months BUT it won't meet intenrational standards so you won't get reciprical agreements with anyone.
We could save time by adopting the existing measures. It’s not f**king hard to grasp. If you’re already compliant, you remain compliant.
 
We could save time by adopting the existing measures. It’s not f**king hard to grasp. If you’re already compliant, you remain compliant.
You REALY don't understand how it works and are really embarrassing yourself. Not that you wil riealise that.

when an aircract takes off it need a signed clearnece to take off. On the 1st April 2019 what is the authority of that certificate?
 
so now you don't believe what the CAA say....
Make your mind up..... Either the CAA do know what they are saying about Civil Aviation Regulation or they don't which is it?

We're reading what the CAA is now saying, the sky will not fall, the planes will keep on flying even if we hard exit.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
OK there are NO PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS

There are solutions but that means no flights in/out of the UK for 8-10 years.

In 8-10 months of no flights in/out of the UK most of the money earning parts of UK PLC will have disappeared.

The UK will make Albania look like paradise about 7-9 years before the CAA can start doing flights again.
So there is not practical solution to leaving EASA

Also the UK Leaving EASA will cause the EU a lot of problems like how are they going to handle the extra capacity when Heathrow is shut. I suspect the Irish will love it. Turn Shannon in to a major hub for Transatlantic.
You are so funny, you brighten up the site, you and Baggie are a hoot!
 
We could save time by adopting the existing measures. It’s not f**king hard to grasp. If you’re already compliant, you remain compliant.
That statement is flat wrong. Regardless of what the UK actually does, it needs bilateral agreements in place with other countries for the purposes of mutual recognition. Should we depart EASA then all the existing agreements disappear. If you don't understand that then you don't understand how things work. Because without such an agreement anything issued by the CAA applies within the UK only.

Now putting those agreements in place is fairly straightforward and shouldn't take too long - once you have a national regulator that ticks all the international regulatory boxes. Setting that up is a minimum of 5 years though, that's the kicker. And the UK has not started that clock running yet. After all, it took 5 years to set up EASA from scratch - well, 6, they had some initial setup as well.

All that said, nothing will stop flying. The latest rumours around the bazaars are that pilots are already being pointed at moving their licences from the UK to another EU country, and of course aircraft and businesses can follow too. The FAA has said they'll mandate using their services for UK firms with US customers. I'm sure other workrounds will be found for things like ATC. I'm sure we'll be offered deals on routes and slots and so on. I'm also sure they will be not as good as we get now and offered on a "take it or stop anyone flying in and out of the UK" basis.

So no disaster, just a steady flow of jobs and money and tax revenue out of the UK. Plus a loss of sovereignty as the UK has to outsource what normal countries do nationally.

But I don't think it'll get that far, we'll stay in EASA as part of a deal and just be a little bit poorer.
 
That statement is flat wrong. Regardless of what the UK actually does, it needs bilateral agreements in place with other countries for the purposes of mutual recognition. Should we depart EASA then all the existing agreements disappear. If you don't understand that then you don't understand how things work. Because without such an agreement anything issued by the CAA applies within the UK only.

Now putting those agreements in place is fairly straightforward and shouldn't take too long - once you have a national regulator that ticks all the international regulatory boxes. Setting that up is a minimum of 5 years though, that's the kicker. And the UK has not started that clock running yet. After all, it took 5 years to set up EASA from scratch - well, 6, they had some initial setup as well.

All that said, nothing will stop flying. The latest rumours around the bazaars are that pilots are already being pointed at moving their licences from the UK to another EU country, and of course aircraft and businesses can follow too. The FAA has said they'll mandate using their services for UK firms with US customers. I'm sure other workrounds will be found for things like ATC. I'm sure we'll be offered deals on routes and slots and so on. I'm also sure they will be not as good as we get now and offered on a "take it or stop anyone flying in and out of the UK" basis.

So no disaster, just a steady flow of jobs and money and tax revenue out of the UK. Plus a loss of sovereignty as the UK has to outsource what normal countries do nationally.

But I don't think it'll get that far, we'll stay in EASA as part of a deal and just be a little bit poorer.

Snort.... the CAA doesn’t agree with you.

“Our preparatory work includes adjusting existing systems so that they could continue to work in exactly the same way as now – but with the UK Government and the CAA fulfilling regulatory functions independently of the EU,”
 
Snort.... the CAA doesn’t agree with you.

“Our preparatory work includes adjusting existing systems so that they could continue to work in exactly the same way as now – but with the UK Government and the CAA fulfilling regulatory functions independently of the EU,”
You dullard. English comprehension really isn't your forte is it? Try working out how they are going to get - for instance - the FAA to agree to recognise UK issued licences. Hint, they need to get the FAA to agree to it. For which you need a national regulator the FAA will recognise.

Not that it matters, you'll be saved from embarrassment when the UK stays in EASA and everything trips along as normal.
 
You dullard. English comprehension really isn't your forte is it? .
On the whole their lack of English comprehension is only matched by their lack of comprehension of how Civil Air Regulation works. That and their inability to remember anything they have been told.

Try working out how they are going to get - for instance - the FAA to agree to recognise UK issued licences. Hint, they need to get the FAA to agree to it. For which you need a national regulator the FAA will recognise. .
Reminds me of one of the Monty Python sketches... this isn't a Cat License is it a Dog license withthe word "dog" crossed out and "Cat" written in green crayon. No one inthe world can accept the CAA a s a stand lone regulator unless it meets the requirments stand alone. That will take 5 years to do *IF* amm the Brits come back from EASA in Europe. They are not going to so it will take 8-10 years. (They the bilateral agreements will be done)

Not that it matters, you'll be saved from embarrassment when the UK stays in EASA and everything trips along as normal.
I suspect there will be a second referendume and the result will be 17 million remain, 8 million take the deal and 8 million Hard Brexit. So the UK will Reverse Brexit. The problem is the EU will probably insist of cancelling a few of the UK opt outs and we may end up with the Euro.

Rather ironic if Brexit gets the UK more closely ties inthe the EU.
 
That statement is flat wrong. Regardless of what the UK actually does, it needs bilateral agreements in place with other countries for the purposes of mutual recognition. Should we depart EASA then all the existing agreements disappear. If you don't understand that then you don't understand how things work. Because without such an agreement anything issued by the CAA applies within the UK only.

Now putting those agreements in place is fairly straightforward and shouldn't take too long - once you have a national regulator that ticks all the international regulatory boxes. Setting that up is a minimum of 5 years though, that's the kicker. And the UK has not started that clock running yet. After all, it took 5 years to set up EASA from scratch - well, 6, they had some initial setup as well.

All that said, nothing will stop flying. The latest rumours around the bazaars are that pilots are already being pointed at moving their licences from the UK to another EU country, and of course aircraft and businesses can follow too. The FAA has said they'll mandate using their services for UK firms with US customers. I'm sure other workrounds will be found for things like ATC. I'm sure we'll be offered deals on routes and slots and so on. I'm also sure they will be not as good as we get now and offered on a "take it or stop anyone flying in and out of the UK" basis.

So no disaster, just a steady flow of jobs and money and tax revenue out of the UK. Plus a loss of sovereignty as the UK has to outsource what normal countries do nationally.

But I don't think it'll get that far, we'll stay in EASA as part of a deal and just be a little bit poorer.
You mean like the bilateral agreement that EASA has with the Singapore Aviation Authority to respect each other’s finding.

So our brand spanking new CAA that has been around for 50 odd years and does all of the heavy lifting for EASA now and is already compliant needs an agreement that EASA recognises the CAA?

It’s a bit like going to court for verification that my wife is actually my wife.

Are you getting a little upset that you’re assessments of impeding doom and gloom aren’t coming to fruition?

Is pilot licensing another constructed fear story?
 
You mean like the bilateral agreement that EASA has with the Singapore Aviation Authority to respect each other’s finding.
There is no need to prove how stupid you are *every* day.

The CAA can have a bi-lateral agreement with EASA (and the FAA) that is not a problem. However it iwll take the CAA FIVE YEARS MINIMUM to get to the position where it can do that. And then time to do the bilatteral agreement. If by then anyone wants to bearing in mind after 5 years , minimum, of no flights will there be any reason to fly to the UK?.

So our brand spanking new CAA that has been around for 50 odd years and does all of the heavy lifting for EASA now and is already compliant needs an agreement that EASA recognises the CAA?
Since the start of EASA (which took 5 or 6 years to set up) the CAA has become a branch office of EASA. Also as has been explained MANY TIMES the Brits at EASA live in Europe and are staying in Europe on Brexit and will remain at the EASA. On Brexit the UK will be loosing 90% of it's "heavy lifting" expertise.

It’s a bit like going to court for verification that my wife is actually my wife.
No it is a bit like you going a sharia court in Bradford to prove your marrige "somewhere in a tent abroad" is valid and then wondering why the UK courts in London don't recognise it or the verdict of the Sharia court.

Are you getting a little upset that you’re assessments of impeding doom and gloom aren’t coming to fruition?
No I think it is proceeding EXCTLY along the lines most of us with any knowledge of civil aviation expected.

Is pilot licensing another constructed fear story?
not at all ot is the CAA's assessment.

Remind meL: today are youy believing what they say or not (and will you topmorrow)?
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
There is no need to prove how stupid you are *every* day.

The CAA can have a bi-lateral agreement with EASA (and the FAA) that is not a problem. However it iwll take the CAA FIVE YEARS MINIMUM to get to the position where it can do that. And then time to do the bilatteral agreement. If by then anyone wants to bearing in mind after 5 years , minimum, of no flights will there be any reason to fly to the UK?.



Since the start of EASA (which took 5 or 6 years to set up) the CAA has become a branch office of EASA. Also as has been explained MANY TIMES the Brits at EASA live in Europe and are staying in Europe on Brexit and will remain at the EASA. On Brexit the UK will be loosing 90% of it's "heavy lifting" expertise.



No it is a bit like you going a sharia court in Bradford to prove your marrige "somewhere in a tent abroad" is valid and then wondering why the UK courts in London don't recognise it or the verdict of the Sharia court.



No I think it is proceeding EXCTLY along the lines most of us with any knowledge of civil aviation expected.


not at all ot is the CAA's assessment.

Remind meL: today are youy believing what they say or not (and will you topmorrow)?
Top tip - When using Caps Lock, it is pertinent to use a bold font as well, just to make sure that you get your point across.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
There is no need to prove how stupid you are *every* day.

The CAA can have a bi-lateral agreement with EASA (and the FAA) that is not a problem. However it iwll take the CAA FIVE YEARS MINIMUM to get to the position where it can do that. And then time to do the bilatteral agreement. If by then anyone wants to bearing in mind after 5 years , minimum, of no flights will there be any reason to fly to the UK?.



Since the start of EASA (which took 5 or 6 years to set up) the CAA has become a branch office of EASA. Also as has been explained MANY TIMES the Brits at EASA live in Europe and are staying in Europe on Brexit and will remain at the EASA. On Brexit the UK will be loosing 90% of it's "heavy lifting" expertise.



No it is a bit like you going a sharia court in Bradford to prove your marrige "somewhere in a tent abroad" is valid and then wondering why the UK courts in London don't recognise it or the verdict of the Sharia court.



No I think it is proceeding EXCTLY along the lines most of us with any knowledge of civil aviation expected.


not at all ot is the CAA's assessment.

Remind meL: today are youy believing what they say or not (and will you topmorrow)?
Whys it going to take five years when we tick all of the boxes now?
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Whys it going to take five years when we tick all of the boxes now?
It's not going to take five years at all ! Don't you know that post brexit the EU will forbid any UK planes from flying at all, ever, without time, - chilly has told us the EU will stop all flights and there is nothing we can do about it.

He will no doubt start on maritime travel now that he, almost singlehandedly, has stopped all UK aircraft from lifting even an inch off the ground!
 
Whys it going to take five years when we tick all of the boxes now?
Because we have to replace all the protocols, procedures and people at EASA. Bearig in mind as you have repeatedly highlighted the majority of the UK experienced people are at EASA (and NOT coming back after Brexit so we Loose 90% of our experienced and qualified people )

It takes a MINIMUM or 5 years for some one to get the logged experience. Think of it like a pilots license as opposed to at car drivers license:
For a car you book a test roll up and take it. If you pass you have a license.
With aircraft you have to do certain courses, so many hours that are logged and approved etc etc .

These are courses that are run and signed of by suitabley qualified and experienced people. For Civil Aviation Regulation the UK doesn't have any. (they are all in , and staying in the EU)

It is a bit like when you get a law degree you can't practice without doing the articles and having it signed off by suitabley qualified and experienced people. Getting to Barrister or Judge takes even longer.

Now you could cheat and do it al in 12 months but that would be like me getting a dog licernse, crossing out dog and writing cat in green crayon and expecting the UK courts to accept it is a Cat license......

The problem is this is NOT up to the EU this is GLOBAL Civil Air Regulation under internationally agreed standards. So you don't have to convince 27 EU states but 190 Nations that they all want to give the UK a free pass in international aviation safety law.
 
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