UK aviation and BREXIT

Guns

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10 ways Brexit could hit UK travellers

The Government just admitted Brexit could ground all flights

Here's what will happen if all flights are grounded on the first day of Brexit

Just to remove some of the load from the BREXIT negotiations thread I have opened this one.

I think @Cloth bomber said something about being an expert in this, I know there are others. Could someone explain what the actual issue is, if there is one, and what it all means. I can't be the only wishing they better understood what it is all about (may be I am).

Normal thread bans etc. No re-hashing the referendum and keep it in topic. No personal attacks and please use evidence and facts.
 

Guns

ADC
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Forgot to add the links are the most current doom and glum ones I could find. Interestingly little to counter them or a positive article.

If you have any please post the links, struggling to fully understand what it is all about and more importantly how it affect my family flying to the UK from Canada in 2019 for a family holiday.
 
This is what could happen if Nibiru smashes into the Earth because of Brexit:



Many flights are expected to be grounded that day.

Good game this "What if X happened?", isn't it?
 
More scaremongering from Project Fear.
 

Guns

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Cheers guys for your insightful information. Not.

Anyone care to refute the links, would really like to understand this better.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
10 ways Brexit could hit UK travellers

The Government just admitted Brexit could ground all flights

Here's what will happen if all flights are grounded on the first day of Brexit

Just to remove some of the load from the BREXIT negotiations thread I have opened this one.

I think @Cloth bomber said something about being an expert in this, I know there are others. Could someone explain what the actual issue is, if there is one, and what it all means. I can't be the only wishing they better understood what it is all about (may be I am).

Normal thread bans etc. No re-hashing the referendum and keep it in topic. No personal attacks and please use evidence and facts.
The issue is desperation to paint Brexit as Armageddon and using the general uncertainity due to nobody else has told the EU to do one before to paint said picture
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Forgot to add the links are the most current doom and glum ones I could find. Interestingly little to counter them or a positive article.

If you have any please post the links, struggling to fully understand what it is all about and more importantly how it affect my family flying to the UK from Canada in 2019 for a family holiday.

If the worst comes to the worst. Canada- Dublin then hop across by ferry. I suspect Dublin is going to be a huger airport. Heathrow’s 3rd runway may not be needed. But fwiw we’ll probably still be in come 2019.
 

NSP

LE
More scaremongering obfuscating mischief-making and attempts to undermine negotiations with a bit of whipped-up hysteria from Project Fear Phil Hammond.
More like it.

Anyway, he's realised he hasn't got the public uproar and delay he hoped for so instead he's let Tess May tell the House that the funds are there for "no deal" contingencies to be put in place then said that, actually, it's not and if he has anything to do with it it won't be, either. Until we've left with no deal so that there's utter chaos.

On the flights thing, he stirred the pot and then said that it wasn't very likely to happen in the same answer. Why would it? It's not like no airline from outside the EU is not allowed to fly in and out of it, is it? - even dodgy third world ones! And it's not like we weren't flying around Europe before November 1993, is it?

Of course, the thicker element are probably still fretting that they'll no longer be able to go to the Costas and Balearics to get shedded, stoned and an exotic genital infection or two. Luckily - and surprisingly - we're not hearing their pathetic, pointless bleatings. Even LBCs James O'Brien - usually quick to climb all over anything negative about Brexit and peddle a few whoppers - couldn't muster much excitement over the fund allocation issue and didn't even bother to give more than a passing mention about the flights wibble.

If you ask me (which you almost certainly don't), it's going to prove to be utter gonads.

Edited to add: Gary Cooper puts it much more eloquently in the next post.
 
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10 ways Brexit could hit UK travellers

The Government just admitted Brexit could ground all flights

Here's what will happen if all flights are grounded on the first day of Brexit

Just to remove some of the load from the BREXIT negotiations thread I have opened this one.

I think @Cloth bomber said something about being an expert in this, I know there are others. Could someone explain what the actual issue is, if there is one, and what it all means. I can't be the only wishing they better understood what it is all about (may be I am).

Normal thread bans etc. No re-hashing the referendum and keep it in topic. No personal attacks and please use evidence and facts.
It's nonsense.

What Hammond said was

"It is theoretically conceivable that in a no deal scenario there will be no air traffic moving between the UK and the European Union on the 29th March 2019 but I don't think anybody seriously believes that that is where we will get to. "

Which is why @dogmeat posted about Nibiru. In theory a large planet could crash into the Earth but it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

The Mirror quotes Brian Strutton of the British Airline Passengers Association;

(BALPA) agrees that UK airlines could have to stop flying without a deal because there are no 'World Trade Organisation or any other rules to fall back on' for aviation.

Brian should perhaps Google the International Civil Aviation Organization. He will be relieved to discover that it's a UN organisation that regulates international air travel. I suspect that it is quite likely that airlines that fly out of and into the UK may have heard of the ICAO.
 

NSP

LE
The issue is desperation to paint Brexit as Armageddon and using the general uncertainity due to nobody else has told the EU to do one before to paint said picture
Well, Dave's promise of WWIII the moment a leave result was announced didn't come off so they need something - anything - to try and achieve the desired effect. They've clearly not noticed that we already voted, we voted out and the headshed keeps telling us we will be getting out.

After the Florence betrayal, though, I suspect she might be fibbing.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Hang about, are you telling me that the flight I took as a young lad back in 1969 didn't happen, it was all a figment of my imagination and all because the EU didn't exist then?
 
The international language of air traffic is English. Obviously air transport will grind to a halt because everyone will be learning German on that day.
“Achtung Spitfeuer!” isn’t going to be very useful in a stack over Hamburg.
 

Auld-Yin

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If the worst comes to the worst. Canada- Dublin then hop across by ferry. I suspect Dublin is going to be a huger airport. Heathrow’s 3rd runway may not be needed. But fwiw we’ll probably still be in come 2019.
You're funnee!

BTW as the negotiating period does not end until March 2019 it is reasonable to consider we will still be in come 2019. Later in that year may be very different :p
 

Purple_Flash

ADC
Moderator
Hang about, are you telling me that the flight I took as a young lad back in 1969 didn't happen, it was all a figment of my imagination and all because the EU didn't exist then?
Don’t be silly. Nothing happened before Year Zero. The EU has always been the wise, beneficent leader of all Europeans. Recently discovered cave paintings in France show Neanderthal renderings of the EU flag of twelve stars and archaeologists have found that the acoustics of the cave were perfectly formed for listening to ‘Ode to Joy’ rendered by clubs beating on the stalagmites.

The EU was, is and always will be. Without it, nothing was, is or will be.
 
Having an inexpert stab at it - because I have no special knowledge - there seem to be various 'reasons' , not least loss of freedom. The EU Open Skies agreement in the single aviation market; operating rights; landing rights; common rules for carriers and airports in the EU. When we Brexit we'll not be in the EU aviation club. Pessimists are talking about complicated rights and 'a legal vacuum' after Brexit; were the rules to be replicated and we kept membership of the European Common Aviation Area/ECAA, I'd imagine there'd still be much negotiation and untying of a lot of knots to do. AIUI, British airports have banded together already.

In Feb this year The FT put it this way: "a platform of law spanning up to 155 countries will fall away in the event of a severe break from the EU". Found this though: Brexit and the aviation industry – "Over & Out" and this upbeat speech from the CAA Chief Exec: https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/News/Speeches_files/GADspeech_AndrewHaines_011216.pdf.
 
You're funnee!

BTW as the negotiating period does not end until March 2019 it is reasonable to consider we will still be in come 2019. Later in that year may be very different :p
The UK should in theory be gone out of the EU at 00:00 CET on 30 March 2019 unless there is unanimous agreement between the European Council and the UK to extend the deadline.

In reality though, negotiations would have to be over by October 2018 so that a host of Parliaments can ratify the Withdrawal Agreement Treaty. IMHO the UK will be doing well to be out of the EU within 5 years.
 

Auld-Yin

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The UK should in theory be gone out of the EU at 00:00 CET on 30 March 2019 unless there is unanimous agreement between the European Council and the UK to extend the deadline.

In reality though, negotiations would have to be over by October 2018 so that a host of Parliaments can ratify the Withdrawal Agreement Treaty. IMHO the UK will be doing well to be out of the EU within 5 years.
Why we should wait for a host of parliaments to agree is beyond me. We reach agreement and then foxtrot oscar. The internal agreement is for the EU to take care of. I believe this is yet another stumbling block being put up by the EU to retain us in the bloc for as long as possible.

Tell me, if we are stuck for a further four or five years as you say, then are we going to be expected to continue paying into the EU Treasury at the same rate for the whole period while getting very little in return (not that we got a lot in the first place)? If we are stuck to the EU for several years it should be on the clear understanding that we stop payments. After all, we have reached an agreement, it is only the EU that has to sort itself out, which if we waited for that to happen we would never be free of the Borg.
 
Why we should wait for a host of parliaments to agree is beyond me.
I think it's that democracy thing that people keep complaining there's a lack of in the EU.

Tell me, if we are stuck for a further four or five years as you say, then are we going to be expected to continue paying into the EU Treasury at the same rate for the whole period while getting very little in return (not that we got a lot in the first place)? If we are stuck to the EU for several years it should be on the clear understanding that we stop payments. After all, we have reached an agreement, it is only the EU that has to sort itself out, which if we waited for that to happen we would never be free of the Borg.
Since the UK will have to agree to the extended negotiations they'll have to agree what happens during the extension period. If they want to be out of the EU by the deadline date maybe they need to put a bit more effort into the negotiations.
 

Auld-Yin

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I think it's that democracy thing that people keep complaining there's a lack of in the EU. They can use their famous democracy to sort out their internal affairs. The next step apparently is for countries to come together and decide if the negotiations are able to continue or are stalled at the money issue. How come country leaders can make these decisions without resorting back to their parliaments yet can't agree the final deal?



Since the UK will have to agree to the extended negotiations they'll have to agree what happens during the extension period. If they want to be out of the EU by the deadline date maybe they need to put a bit more effort into the negotiations.so all fault lies with the UK not the EU? You are M Barnier and I claim my ten euros!
If the final agreement has to be ratified does that mean it all goes back to ms in one go for them to re-pick over every word, or will partial agreements be fed back so a final agreement is the last part of a building process? I know which I suspect will happen and will take forever as each parliament will take a bit to rip up and send back.

We need to do what was voted for and leave at the end of the two year negotiation period. Not be dragged into eternal negotiation.
 
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