UK approach to combatting percieved terrorist threat

how well the goverment is coordinating and handling the prevention of terrorism?

  • Very badly

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Badly

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Moderate

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Well

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Very well

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
After reading varying articles in a number of UK newspapers I would like to know what the members of arrse think of how well the government is coordinating and handling the prevention of terrorism.
 
#2
Personally I think we are totally unprepared for anything that a terrorist will through at us, especially under this government and its lefty ideas! :evil:
 
#5
However much the Dear Leader (may his reign be blessed etc.) spouts (in his 'voice-of-concern') about T W A T, his record speaks for itself - appeasement of NI terrorists, and a total failure to control immigration and asylum.
 
#6
Especially after todays news item on the total failure of the Immigration service to listen to one of their own! :evil:

We are wide open waiting for a strike and the idiots don't know what to do!
 
#7
I think the proof of the effectiveness of the gov's response to the terrorist threat is in the lack of (successful) attacks we have sustained. ...- touch wood.

I'm not a screaming Blair loving lefty but I think he has some good people of an non-political nature working for him.

We are a very attractive target and quite vulnerable (despite our island nature) due to our geographical position in Europe and high domestic ethnic diversity. We have been long overdue a spectacular to follow 9/11 and the events in+around Heathrow a few months ago (it was on the news - can't remember exact details but included threat of SAMs) may be one example of many foiled attacks.

From our unfortunate experiences with PIRA we have a slightly more aware public and experienced police force in terrorism than the average Western country. So you could argue this "success" cannot be apportioned to the Gov but I think the grinning t1t deserves a little credit.
 
#8
Most of what you say, I agree with. However I think it is a case of the terrorists waiting for the right moment or perhaps wanting to lull us into a false sense of security.

TB (God bless his name forevermore!) was accused of using the incidents at Heathrow to take the heat of him and his cronies when they are getting battered in the press. That would not really surprise me with him at all.

We are different, as you say, in that we have been targets for the past 30 years courtesy of PIRA but we are getting lax, especially Joe Public. I think it has been luck so far with a little good intelligence work.

Long may it continue! :?
 
#9
We are quite frankly sitting ducks. A country full of 'non english' (if ones allowed to say that) anyone of which could be readying themselves for some sort of attack. We appear to have border controls that are now virtually non existant so if they want to get in there's no problem there.

I say that not to stir up racial hatred but it's a simple statement of fact. Where better to hid a terrorist than amongst his (or her) own. What we don't know is how sucessful the security services are in gathering intelligence and hence thwarting potental attacks. We hear of the few sucesses on the news but this is probably the minority. I suspect they're working flat out on this particular subject.

The other issue to consider is whether they consider us just too pathetic a target to bother with!!
 
#10
When a major terrorist act is averted , in many cases it is more luck than judgment and usually down to some failure in the terrorist structure as to why that particular attempt failed.
Of course there are always politicians and security agencies all to willing to jump on the band wagon and claim the praise for protecting the realm.

I feel we are as ready as we can be(it will never be enough) and I believe our security services are doing all they can, but the bottom line is the terrorist always will hold the upper hand, lets just hope our luck holds.
 
#11
When the IRA were bombing the mainland, the 'Irish' (from both the Republic and the British bit) living on the mainland would condemed the acts. The Irish were among the victims.

Other than pikeys, the Irish assimilate. You'd meet Shamus down the pub and he'd be ranting about the latest atrocity with everyone else. His father fought in the British Army during WW2.

The IRA didn't do suicide bombs. There was the odd involuntary one though. :lol:

Irish in the UK police and in the community had no conflct of loyalties, not to the point that they were silent or "understood" the terrorists motives.

Terrorist organisations could be infiltrated. We all look the same!

Gerry would be on TV complaining (in subtitles) about harassment in Ulster (not that he called it that) but that was about it.

The Irish didn't want to change anything in their new country. Neither do/did Italians, Jews, Poles, Chinese. Nor did the first wave of Africans (Afro Caribbean- still Africans).

Subsequent waves of Africans and descendants of the earlier waves of Africans do. Some convert to Islam. Immigrants from the Indian sub continent go into both camps. Some are Muslims, those who are not are associated with them anyway, by the ignorance of others. A few are completely assimilated ( o'er a bit Borgesque) into British life. They may be 'native' at home but that's (usually) okay. They know who they are and so do the rational British of European race. Welcome.

When there is a major terrorist attack in this country ( Madrid scale?) or maybe one suicide bomber, and the culprit(s) is "Islamic", Muslims are going to be on the receiving end of some major unofficial grief. Except in areas where they are in the majority.

Asif will not be down the local pub; "fcuking 'ell mate, that was nasty, may the guilty rot in hell". He'll be: not in the pub, silent or 'understanding'. Then he'll complain that he, family, neighbour or some tw@t he doesn't even know has been searched by the police in connection with the incident.

Fighting 'Islamic' terrorism is different.

We're aw' doomed! :wink:
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#12
It appears Scotland yard has had a result catching some potential bombers in the Home Counties and they had bomb making materials- looks like a result to me.
 
#13
Seadog said:
His father fought in the British Army during WW2.
Danny Morrison PIRA (Ret.) was once whinging about the conditions in which he was interned at Long Kesh. His father was listening and agreed saying that the huts were awful when he'd been in them too.

Morrison Jnr:"But Da you were never interned."

Morrison Snr:"I know. I stayed in them while I was in the RAF."
 
#14
Morrison Jnr:"But Da you were never interned."

Morrison Snr:"I know. I stayed in them while I was in the RAF."
Receiving a lecture on the dangers of turning Kremlin's evidence, the lecturer ( a Master at Arms in civvies from DNSy who thought he was James Bond) closed with a line to the effect

"So, if you don't want to end up spending your days in a 9 x 6 grey room, keep our secrets secret".

An old and bold Chief Petty Officer responds "Nine by six? Fcuking luxury!"

Much merriment.
 
J

Jake01

Guest
#15
Chemical 'bomb plot' in UK foiled


Security has been stepped up on public tranport
Intelligence agents in the UK and US have foiled an alleged chemical bomb plot in Britain, the BBC has learnt.
The plot was believed to involve detonating a combination of explosive and a chemical called osmium tetroxide.

Experts say in gas form it could be lethal in a confined space.

The plotters were thought to be sympathetic to the aims of al-Qaeda and the intended target was believed to be British civilians.

The chemical has a legitimate scientific use for research but is highly destructive to peoples' eyes, lungs and skin.

Attack 'inevitable'


The plot was foiled after US and British intelligence intercepted communications between the plotters and it is not thought that they had managed to obtain any of the chemical, osmium tetroxide.

The target was thought to be areas in which there would be concentrations of people, possibly within a confined space.

The UK has been on a high state of alert since bombings in Madrid on 11 March claimed 191 lives.

Metropolitan Police commissioner Sir John Stevens said a terror attack on London was inevitable but Home Secretary David Blunkett has tried to play this down.

"There has to be a balance between telling the truth and reassurance"

Home Secretary David Blunkett



Alastair Hay, Professor of environmental toxicology at Leeds University, said osmium tetroxide was a rare catalyst - a chemical that speeds experiments - and could potentially make an explosion occur more rapidly.

But Professor Hay told the BBC it would have to be obtained from a specialist chemical supplier and it did not fit the profile of a typical chemical warfare or dirty bomb agent.

"It would not be in the same category as some radioactive substance which would continue to emit radiation and cause a problem in terms of clean up.

"This would be something present, like a heavy metal like lead, in the environment. I don't think it would be a major hazard and clean up would not be a major problem," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3603961.stm
 
#16
I voted WELL in this poll.

The proof is in the pudding. There hasn't been a terrorist attack in the U.K. yet. The recent arrests were probably necessary at that time.
You will find that there is twenty times more going on than you will ever hear of. It's better alot of the time to keep people under observation, to disrupt and control than to go into the china shop like a rather large bovine male.

I have no real faith in any past or present U.K. government. Our country, laws and identity are slowly being erroded by E.U. policy and laws.
The E.H.C.R. is in some respects a good idea. However there are numerous aspects which are laughable.

Who agrees with the Gibraltar threes families getting money form the U.K. when their deceased relatives where actively engaged in trying to kill as many people as they could.

Agree or not?

There will come a time in the U.K. when A.Q. terrorists will get a hod of money from our country due to their human rights being infringed.

Watch this space.........
 
#18
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3603961.stm

Alastair Hay, Professor of environmental toxicology at Leeds University, said osmium tetroxide was a rare catalyst - a chemical that speeds experiments - and could potentially make an explosion occur more rapidly.
...make an explosion occur more rapidly? 8O

So different explosives propagate at different rates when they go BANG or B-O-O-O-M but I doubt the purpose of such a catalyst is to speed up a slow one. Try spreading OsO4 about. Emergency services come along after the bomb to attend to the carnage and become contaminated, with all that implies for incident escalation and; emergency services morale the next time.

The chemical has a legitimate scientific use for research but is highly destructive to peoples' eyes, lungs and skin.
It has commercial uses too. Comes in at $99 per gram.
http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/76.html

Sure is destructive to your bits.

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/OS/osmic_acid.html

Toxicology
Acute poison. Ingestion, inhalation or skin contact may be fatal. Long-term exposure may lead to permanent eye damage, including blindness. Typical TLV (TWA) 0.002 mg m-3
TWA 0.002mg per cubic metre. ( For those working with it legitimately)

Also http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/1441.pdf

I read elsewhere the EC standard lower still and, OsO4 can affect bone marrow too.

Back to the BBC's news.

But Professor Hay told the BBC it would have to be obtained from a specialist chemical supplier and it did not fit the profile of a typical chemical warfare or dirty bomb agent.

HURRAH! Terrorists are thwarted. They've got to go to a specialist supplier. And OsO4 doesn't fit the profile....blah! TFFT! We can all breathe easy.

Osama. Give that idea up. The professor says.....

Sounds like the professor doesn't feel terrorists are capable of ingenuity and he may think there is too much scaremongering going on.

He scares me! :wink:
 
#19
I side with those that say on current evidence, i.e. there hasn't been an overt attack, they must be doing a good job. Good job or not, if the grouping of Islamic terrorist organisations is as determined to punish the proponents of liberal democracy, as the Govt and the media claim they are, then surely they will succeed at sometime.

In the past we have failed to prevent the IRA in all its forms, INLA and the so called 'loyalist' terrorists from carrying out attacks (Woolwich. Guildford, Birmingham, Knightsbridge, City of London and Manchester, not to mention the Province). Our experience, infiltration of their cells and commitment in dealing with these organisations, failed to prevent many of their attacks. What hope therefore that we can prevent the activities of organisations that already have established cells in this country.

What was it that an Irish terrorist once said of the then Govt's efforts to counter terrorism,

"You have to be lucky all the time, we only once."

If Bin Laden et al really want to attack us, they will and at sometime they will be successful. Apologies for the pessimism but I just can't see any other outcome.
 
#20
There are 5 stages to Integrated Contingecy Planning, no doubt that we are doing v well on stage 2 "Prevention", and all credit to those involved.

However I have a suspicion that those involved in Prevention, also have a role to play in 3 of the other stages: Preparation, Response and Recovery. There is a view that these are the areas that we would fall down on.

Like the army for years, some parts of our national security apparatus are now in permenant crisis-management mode, no one is taking a long term view. The normally establishment centric Emergency Planning Society have had a view on this since 9/11. The Home Sec only just seems to have noticed
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3558483.stm

If anyone tells you that we've got it just right, then ask why the Government have been sat on the public release of this report for nearly 4 months now : http://www.projectunicorn.co.uk/frameset.html??? :oops:
 

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