UK and US attitudes - the difference made concrete

#1
I heard this from a British officer the other night, so it qualifies as a bona fide shithouse rumour :D

There's an obvious weapons factory in Helmand - gangs with weapons going in, pick-up having launch rails welded to the back of it, the footage is unambiguous. We (the British) ponder what to do for many days - strike, sf raid, are there civilians inside, what will be the local response?

The US take over the situation and "...within three minutes a half-colonel who didn't even put down his coffee mug at any point turned the building into dust".
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
Affirmative action. Pity he didn't wait until he'd tracked down where the railed-up bad boys were headed.
 
#5
Not necessarily indicative of the wider approach, I admit, but describes a verve which - by comparison with our rather bookish Generals - I can't help but admire...

Gen dit ( or so I'd like to believe :D ) heard from a friend in 205 Corps during planning an offensive in the fish-hook as part of Op Panther's Claw:

Brig-Gen Nicolson - ... this is critically important, I'm prepared to take up to 70 casualties a day on this. Any questions?

Brit Staff Officer - <gulps, utters word to the effect of> Ermm.... isn't that rather a lot, General?

Brig-Gen Nicolson - Listen son, I didn't get to become a BRIGADIER GENERAL IN THE UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS BY BEING A F.UCKING PUSSY!

Brit - < nnnggggg >

When you learn that his great-grandfather was the legendary John Nicolson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nicholson_(East_India_Company_officer) - a man of such unblinking violence that he inspired a cult devoted to his worship.
Nicholson was best known for his role in the Indian Mutiny of 1857, planning and leading the Storming of Delhi. Famously dismissive of the incompetence of his superiors, he said, upon hearing of General Wilson's hesitancy, "Thank God I have yet the strength to shoot him, if necessary". One famous story recounted by Charles Allen in Soldier Sahibs is of a night during the Mutiny when Nicholson strode into the British mess tent at Jullunder, coughed to attract the attention of the officers, then said, "I am sorry, gentlemen, to have kept you waiting for your dinner, but I have been hanging your cooks." He had been told that the regimental chefs had poisoned the soup with aconite. When they refused to taste it for him, he force fed it to a monkey - and when it expired on the spot, he proceeded to hang the cooks from a nearby tree without a trial.
Charlie
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#6
I prefer the Yanks approach. Fcuk 'em. If civvies are stupid enough to hang around somewhere that is obviously going to become a target then they deserve to be killed.....for being stupid at the very least.
 
#7
PrinceAlbert said:
I prefer the Yanks approach. Fcuk 'em. If civvies are stupid enough to hang around somewhere that is obviously going to become a target then they deserve to be killed.....for being stupid at the very least.
Or perhaps for trying to earn some money? kill the civvies, and turn the local poplace well against you, potentially losing a source of information, and increasing violence against you in that area.

But hey, its only for 6 months, then someone else can try to rebuild that area.... :roll:
 
#8
PrinceAlbert said:
I prefer the Yanks approach. Fcuk 'em. If civvies are stupid enough to hang around somewhere that is obviously going to become a target then they deserve to be killed.....for being stupid at the very least.
Yeah, 'coz ISAF Ops publish the daily target package in the local papers, innit? They're bound to know where a bomb's going to be dropped. :roll:

Even if the bad guys aren't holding them there with threats, they've got the choice of staying near their homes and livelihoods or facing starvation in the hinterland on the off-chance we know where the bomb makers are.
 
#9
Charlie_Cong said:
Brig: Listen son, I didn't get to become a BRIGADIER GENERAL IN THE UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS BY BEING A F.UCKING PUSSY!
When you learn that his great-grandfather was the legendary John Nicolson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nicholson_(East_India_Company_officer) - a man of such unblinking violence that he inspired a cult devoted to his worship.
Um, that's all very well, but what do you think the Grauniad leaf-eaters would make of extending the policy to include still further of his putative ancestor's diplomacy? (heck, it would be worth it for that alone :twisted: )

He was well known for his violence to the local Indians, having them whipped for the tiniest perceived slight and at one time having the head of a native chief on his desk while he dispensed summary justice to others.
As for being the good Brigadier's great-grandfather, the same Wiki article goes on to state that JN was unmarried; indeed, reading between the lines one could make a case for him perhaps preferring the company of men.
Nicholson never married, .... The love between him and Edwardes made them, as Edwardes' wife latter described it,(Trotter 1900) "more than brothers in the tenderness of their whole lives".
One could gather the impression that JN might not have liked what Brigadier Nicholson was'nt.
 
#10
just bloody well nuke the lot. sod the locals, afghan is a dump. why we bothered with it escapes me. ah well, at least there is a scrap to be had when i get out there.
 
#11
parahopes said:
just bloody well nuke the lot. sod the locals, afghan is a dump. why we bothered with it escapes me. ah well, at least there is a scrap to be had when i get out there.
The reason we don't want to nuke it is because it home to a number of endangered species, such as snow leopards, wolves, and brown bears, paghman salamander, goitered gazelle and the Himalayan elm tree. Given this, it would be highly unethical to use WMDs.
 
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PrinceAlbert

Guest
#12
smartascarrots said:
PrinceAlbert said:
I prefer the Yanks approach. Fcuk 'em. If civvies are stupid enough to hang around somewhere that is obviously going to become a target then they deserve to be killed.....for being stupid at the very least.
Yeah, 'coz ISAF Ops publish the daily target package in the local papers, innit? .
If I were working in/near a bomb factory, I would automatically assume that the factory would be made a target. Perhaps I have a little more common sense than them?
 
#13
parahopes said:
just bloody well nuke the lot. sod the locals, afghan is a dump. why we bothered with it escapes me. ah well, at least there is a scrap to be had when i get out there.
If you get out there, Jake; not a foregone conclusion. Para reg have a fair few applying at the moment and probably still will when you turn 16 in a year or two; if you are as stupid and small-minded as that post makes you appear then you'll be well down the list.
 
#14
PrinceAlbert said:
smartascarrots said:
PrinceAlbert said:
I prefer the Yanks approach. Fcuk 'em. If civvies are stupid enough to hang around somewhere that is obviously going to become a target then they deserve to be killed.....for being stupid at the very least.
Yeah, 'coz ISAF Ops publish the daily target package in the local papers, innit? .
If I were working in/near a bomb factory, I would automatically assume that the factory would be made a target. Perhaps I have a little more common sense than them?
Assuming you knew that it was a bomb factory in the first place or even that the lads milling around near your gaff were down as Taliban in our books. What if those lads didn't think of themselves as Taliban or even did but kept it to themselves?

What if, in the ever-shifting matrix of Afghan alliances and feuds, they only 'became' Taliban in ISAF minds some time after setting up shop and nobody thought to tell you that had happened!
 
#16
vvaannmmaann said:
Is this the same septic 'gung-ho' attitude that brings about blue on blue incidents?
Quite possibly. But that may also be their inability to aim.
 

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