UK Ambassador to USA resigns

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
I thought that we were past that topic now and ready to move on to another subject.
Make up your mind.
I didn't. Discussing favourite colours is not a matter for this thread. Take care now.
 
Not quite. I suspect this was a Brexiter/ Faragist plot to get Nigel nominated to the ambassadors job on the back of Trumps personal endorsement.
He has been sniffing around the States for years, has already expressed an interest in the job.

Boris would be glad to hand the spiv the job because it makes Donald happy, and the Tories might benefit from decapitation of the personality cult Brexit Party.
Oakeshott is a known Faragist, and so is the village idiot they got to leak to her.

So, destroy the incumbent, let Trump throw a predictable paddy, then "reluctantly" offer Farage the job to restore relations.
Pity the spiv's dealings with Assange suggest he would fail any security vetting.

I would be Interested if the cut off date for access to diplomatic traffic matches the ending of ministerial access of certain Brexiter ex ministers.
And there you have it. It's all a plot between The orange one and Farage.
Too bad their dastardly deed and plotting has been foiled er...
 
I couldn't give a f***. I've made my opinion of the person who leaked the emails known.
You gave a feck here when you were accusing anti Brexit CS of doing it.
And there are more than likely plenty of the 'Hate Trump' types in the FCO, who would love to do their little bit towards embarassing Trump and undermining UK/US relations.
Guttersnipes.
Now that it's apparent the people instrumental in its release were Brexit supporters, not so much?
 
A decent take on the patsy angle.


Sopel is no mug.
 
You gave a feck here when you were accusing anti Brexit CS of doing it.

Now that it's apparent the people instrumental in its release were Brexit supporters, not so much?
And how has this changed my opinion of the person who leaked the emails? It hasn't.
 
And how has this changed my opinion of the person who leaked the emails? It hasn't.
Never said it did, I said that you GAF when you were accusing anti Brexit CS, now it's <shrugs>
 
  1. Not quite. I suspect this was a Brexiter/ Faragist plot to get Nigel nominated to the ambassadors job on the back of Trumps personal endorsement. He has been sniffing around the States for years, has already expressed an interest in the job.
  2. Boris would be glad to hand the spiv the job because it makes Donald happy, and the Tories might benefit from decapitation of the personality cult Brexit Party.
    Oakeshott is a known Faragist, and so is the village idiot they got to leak to her.
  3. So, destroy the incumbent, let Trump throw a predictable paddy, then "reluctantly" offer Farage the job to restore relations. Pity the spiv's dealings with Assange suggest he would fail any security vetting.
  4. I would be Interested if the cut off date for access to diplomatic traffic matches the ending of ministerial access of certain Brexiter ex ministers.
You made four points. I've numbered them for reference above.

Numbers 1 and 3 are stating that the plan was to get Farage made the UK ambassador to the US.

With number 4 you suggest that you believe the originator was someone inside the current Conservative government, probably a former cabinet minister.

With number 2 you suggest that a major motivation for the Conservatives to do this would be to eliminate Farage as a political threat by getting him to retire from politics via the bribe of a patronage post.

But when I asked you if you thought this was a Conservative plot to eliminate the political threat of Farage by trying to buy him off you said it wasn't. Yet your explanation amounts to more or less the same thing.

The question then is, how likely would it be that someone would have thought that Farage could be bought off so easily at this time when his lifelong dream is within his grasp so long as he holds out and poses a credible threat to the Conservative Party (and to Labour to some degree) for the next year or so until Brexit has happened and things have progressed too far beyond it for it to be easily reversed after? Especially when the bribe would be a gift of the prime minister that could be snatched back at any time once Farage was no longer deemed a threat?

I'm not going to say that it's totally impossible that someone could have thought this, but is it likely? I have my doubts, but I would certainly be interested in hearing any arguments that can present a compelling case for it.
 
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So long as we are doing a bit of unsupported speculation, here's a theory to consider.

According to some news sources, when the Conservative leadership race was down to Johnson, Gove, and Hunt, Johnson or one of his supporters directed some of his supporters to vote for Hunt in order to squeeze out Gove, as he would rather face Hunt than Gove in the final vote.
Did Boris’s dirty tricks help Hunt over Gove? | Coffee House
So what went on? Gove’s allies suspect that Gavin Williamson, the former Chief Whip and co-chair of the Boris campaign, directed between 10-15 Boris supporters to team Hunt – to ensure a lower-energy challenger and an easier final. Allies of Boris don’t deny that dark arts were deployed. The games, the games.

So it’s the ideal result for Boris, who did not want to face the waspish and interrogative Michael Gove in hustings across the country. An ideal result for Tory MPs who were concerned about the level of blue-on-blue attacks that could occur if the Johnson and Gove ‘psychodrama’. And a depressing result for those who had wanted Boris properly put on the rack over the next few weeks.
That was on the 20th of June, about a month ago.

Edginton said that the documents were leaked to him "last month". That could easily be after the 20th of June.
But last month, my investigation took an extraordinary turn when a trusted source read out to me an astonishing letter written by Sir Kim in June 2017 to Sir Mark Sedwill, Britain's national security adviser. In it, Sir Kim branded Trump's White House 'inept' and 'utterly dysfunctional'.
So as purely unsupported speculation we might consider the theory that Johnson first destroyed Gove by directing some of his supporters to vote for Hunt, and then attempted to undermine Hunt by making one of his ambassadors look bad. Under this theory (for which we have no evidence I should emphasize) Johnson may not have had a direct hand in the leak, as he has plenty of supporters who could have done it for him without him being aware of exactly what the leak would consist of (what he doesn't know he can't reveal by accident or otherwise).

Making Hunt's management of the Foreign Office look bad may have been considered desirable in order to cancel out Johnson's own alleged errors during his own tenure as foreign minister and so negate any advantage that Hunt may have hoped to obtain from that. Hunt's handling of the affair with aplomb through his support of Darroch was not foreseen.

Darroch under this theory was collateral damage and Edginton was used to do the leak because it was known that he was sniffing around for leaks and he had no direct connection to Johnson or the Conservative Party.

Everything is explained under this theory including the timing and the use of Edginton, and it becomes a matter of Conservative Party in-fighting and Johnson being a ruthless and ambitious political operator.

I have to emphasize that the above is purely speculative and I have no evidence to support it, but it's the first theory that I've seen that explains everything and doesn't leave any lose ends. I welcome seeing holes poked in it.
 
So long as we are doing a bit of unsupported speculation, here's a theory to consider.

According to some news sources, when the Conservative leadership race was down to Johnson, Gove, and Hunt, Johnson or one of his supporters directed some of his supporters to vote for Hunt in order to squeeze out Gove, as he would rather face Hunt than Gove in the final vote.
Did Boris’s dirty tricks help Hunt over Gove? | Coffee House


That was on the 20th of June, about a month ago.

Edginton said that the documents were leaked to him "last month". That could easily be after the 20th of June.


So as purely unsupported speculation we might consider the theory that Johnson first destroyed Gove by directing some of his supporters to vote for Hunt, and then attempted to undermine Hunt by making one of his ambassadors look bad. Under this theory (for which we have no evidence I should emphasize) Johnson may not have had a direct hand in the leak, as he has plenty of supporters who could have done it for him without him being aware of exactly what the leak would consist of (what he doesn't know he can't reveal by accident or otherwise).

Making Hunt's management of the Foreign Office look bad may have been considered desirable in order to cancel out Johnson's own alleged errors during his own tenure as foreign minister and so negate any advantage that Hunt may have hoped to obtain from that. Hunt's handling of the affair with aplomb through his support of Darroch was not foreseen.

Darroch under this theory was collateral damage and Edginton was used to do the leak because it was known that he was sniffing around for leaks and he had no direct connection to Johnson or the Conservative Party.

Everything is explained under this theory including the timing and the use of Edginton, and it becomes a matter of Conservative Party in-fighting and Johnson being a ruthless and ambitious political operator.

I have to emphasize that the above is purely speculative and I have no evidence to support it, but it's the first theory that I've seen that explains everything and doesn't leave any lose ends. I welcome seeing holes poked in it.
I did point at BoJo and his tame leaker, Gavin Williams doing it, only half tongue in cheek. This is a top quote from Boris, whilst he was running away.

“It is vital that our civil service is not politicised by ministers leaking what they say. Whoever leaked that deserves to be eviscerated.”

Boris Johnson Refuses To Rule Out Sacking Ambassador To US Over Trump Criticism

Could just be a slip of the tongue of course. If Fox gets chosen to replace Darroch nobody would convince me otherwise though.
 
I did point at BoJo and his tame leaker, Gavin Williams doing it, only half tongue in cheek. This is a top quote from Boris, whilst he was running away.

“It is vital that our civil service is not politicised by ministers leaking what they say. Whoever leaked that deserves to be eviscerated.”

Boris Johnson Refuses To Rule Out Sacking Ambassador To US Over Trump Criticism

Could just be a slip of the tongue of course. If Fox gets chosen to replace Darroch nobody would convince me otherwise though.
If someone starts feeling guilty about what happened to Darroch they can always see that he gets another gong to add to his collection after a decent interval.
 
You made four points. I've numbered them for reference above.

Numbers 1 and 3 are stating that the plan was to get Farage made the UK ambassador to the US.

With number 4 you suggest that you believe the originator was someone inside the current Conservative government, probably a former cabinet minister.

With number 2 you suggest that a major motivation for the Conservatives to do this would be to eliminate Farage as a political threat by getting him to retire from politics via the bribe of a patronage post.

But when I asked you if you thought this was a Conservative plot to eliminate the political threat of Farage by trying to buy him off you said it wasn't. Yet your explanation amounts to more or less the same thing.

The question then is, how likely would it be that someone would have thought that Farage could be bought off so easily at this time when his lifelong dream is within his grasp so long as he holds out and poses a credible threat to the Conservative Party (and to Labour to some degree) for the next year or so until Brexit has happened and things have progressed too far beyond it for it to be easily reversed after? Especially when the bribe would be a gift of the prime minister that could be snatched back at any time once Farage was no longer deemed a threat?

I'm not going to say that it's totally impossible that someone could have thought this, but is it likely? I have my doubts, but I would certainly be interested in hearing any arguments that can present a compelling case for it.
My opinion is that it is a Brexiter who is either a previous or current member of the Conservative Party.

That is NOT the same as a Conservative plot.

This episode caused embarrassment and disruption to the Government of the day, which is, of course, Conservative.
This doesn't smell like a high level State sponsored operation designed to shoot itself in the foot.

It has the hallmarks of low level rat like cunning, short sighted thinking and no appreciation of anything other than short term effects. In short, the kind of crap amateur conspiracy some golf club members might come up with after a long night at the bar to try and get the Club president to step down.
 
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