UDR issued Personal protection weapons

#1
I have been doing a bit of reading on the Ulster Defence Regiment and am getting a bit confused.
In "A Testimony of Courage" the author talks about the army issuing some UDR soldiers .22LR Walther pistols, in "An Encyclopedia of the Modern british Army" it shows the XL47E1 walther PP in 7.65mm (.32ACP). In another source on line from the republican side its says a 9mm walther. and on a List of the L designations there is L66A1 5.6 x 16mmR (.22RF) Pistol Automatic, Walther, target. By Manuhrin, France.
And wikipedia says walther PPK.

I know they were preceeded by the .38 Webley and the 9mmx19 walther P5 compact was issued later. And Brownings were made available and guys bought their own.

But can anyone tell me which walther was the ISSUE PPW was it PP or PPK and what calibre was it in?
 
#3
In the prison service early eighties all three of those walthers were about, we sort of come under the same sort of rules as the UDR as far as the police were concerned, we were also allowed to buy our own ppw subject to police approval ( just to stop some knobheads buying 44 magnums) some did try. there was also a lot of Star and taurus knocking about in the smaller calibre.
the issue walther ala p/service was the pp 9mm short.
 
#4
.22 PP were issued , a lot bought their own with a bit more oomph, look up Sammy Brush for one who used his to save his life. in the early years Stirlings and SLRs we taken home by some under very high risk.
 
#5
Lots of ours had P5s, some got/bought HP35(?) Brownings. As ordinaryforces says some guys had Taurus weapons, called PT something I think. (It was a long time ago)
 
#6
.22 PP were issued , a lot bought their own with a bit more oomph, look up Sammy Brush for one who used his to save his life. in the early years Stirlings and SLRs we taken home by some under very high risk.
Was he the chap interviewed on the peter Taylor series?

Shot a couple of times, but managed to open fire and drive off the terrorists?

Gerry McGeough made no comment in the shooting, on the same series?
 
#7
P5 9mm for a UDR bloke I worked with early 1990
 
#8
In the prison service early eighties all three of those walthers were about, we sort of come under the same sort of rules as the UDR as far as the police were concerned, we were also allowed to buy our own ppw subject to police approval ( just to stop some knobheads buying 44 magnums) some did try. there was also a lot of Star and taurus knocking about in the smaller calibre.
the issue walther ala p/service was the pp 9mm short.
I can remember a couple of Prison Officers with 44 Magnums. One used his to commit suicide in Silver City (our accommodation blocks).
 
#9
I can remember a couple of Prison Officers with 44 Magnums. One used his to commit suicide in Silver City (our accommodation blocks).
That one passed me by!
not disputing it or anything as there were quite a few incidents at that period, its just the details that get a bit vague.
and yes there were a few exotic guns that got by the criteria, one p38 with the faintest trace of a filed of swastika just visible:) Yes Jimmy N if your reading you mad twat.
 
#10
The .22 Walther was the initial issue of a PPW and it was very unpopular, not just for the small calibre but also because people said it was very unreliable (before my time so I can't confirm that). It was during the period that the .22 was issued that a lot of people bought their own pistols, particularly revolvers as they thought they would be more reliable.

The Walther P5 Compact (9mm) was the issue PPW from from about the mid 80's until the disbandment of the Home Service in 2007. Good little pistol, reliable, small and easily concealed but the 8 round magazine put some people off who bought Brownings, Berrettas etc for the larger magazine capacity.
 
#11
Was he the chap interviewed on the peter Taylor series?

Shot a couple of times, but managed to open fire and drive off the terrorists?

Gerry McGeough made no comment in the shooting, on the same series?
That's him ,and McGeogh has since been convicted of his attempted murder :)
 
#12
I carried a P5C. As has been said lots of the boys (and girls) purchased their own pistols. Glock 19 and 17 were quite popular in my Coy.

If the above shooting is the one I'm thinking of the UDR lad was (and should be) regarded as an absolute legend. Took on an ASU with his P5C, killed 1 baddie and fought off the rest. Took several hits in the legs but still managed to crawl to his glove box for a spare mag, reload and carry on.

Nails.
 
#14
^ Samuel Brush, part-timer, shot while on his rounds as a postman.
Sammy Brush is the one being referred to by RUCFOREVER. The incident described by BigMac was a Part Timer from 4 UDR who was at his day job as the council dog catcher.

We took a load of officers and SNCOs to the scene of that one on a previous incident analysis day and had the individual concerned talk them through the incident at the scene. Amazing story and incredible that he survived it with the amount of rounds fired at him at such close range, 3x AKs on full auto at ranges of between 15 feet and 5 feet and him with a P5C with an 8x rd magazine!
 
#15
#16
Sammy Brush is the one being referred to by RUCFOREVER. The incident described by BigMac was a Part Timer from 4 UDR who was at his day job as the council dog catcher
Legz, would that be the Corporal who's painting hung in the HQ block at Grosvenor, of him wearing his frankly astounding collection of gallantry hardware? Wasn't it DCM and QGM?


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#17
#18
Yep that's him. He used to be very touchy about mentioned in public (he went mental when the book a Testimony to Courage came out with the whole story plus a picture of him in it) but he did an interview with the News Letter last year where he spoke about the incident in Leggs. Ex-UDR man recalls gun battle with IRA gang - Regional - Belfast Newsletter
I was in 4/6 UDR and 4 Royal Irish. Lots of our guys gave up the issued P5 and purchased the Berreta 92F or the cheaper CZ75 (copy) as they used standard 9mm ammo, but had a larger mag capacity and higher rate fire, just what you need when ambushed?
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Years ago a well known watering hole in Belfast. Off duty person having a beer or three there's a couple of unsavoury types at the bar, seen to be 'carrying'. Needless to say there's a standoff which leads to a gunfight.
Reinforcements arrive, understandably nobody's keen to run into a small room filled with bullets. A shouted dialogue ensues, there's a shout of 'I'm out of ammo'. Cop runs fowrward throws in a mag. '
'It's jammed'.
So everybody piles in, the miscreants at the bar are off duty P.O.s/UDR and the lone peeler had been attempting to load ten regal into his handgun.

I didn't see it. I wasn't there. But even yet, driving past with a certain type of old and bold in the car.
Somebody always tells the story
 
#20
In answer to the OP's question. The original main issue in the 70's and 80's was the .22 PP version. Each Bn also had a small number of PP in 7.65 (poss only two or three) The weapon was issued with a military cover certificate related to your ID card for when being carried.

As has been said above, some decided it was underpowered or whatever and sought a firearms cert from the RUC and then bought their own weapon. Having an issued weapon was usually on the same grounds that a FAC would be granted for "personal protection" by the RUC so there was usually no problem in getting licenced.

There was a "weapons out" policy for "that rifle" in certain areas at certain times too.
 

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