UDI

Try finding a US import in Sainsburys. Apart from the fresh foods, everything is a Chinese import.
I was alluding to the remoaners chlorinated chicken scare tactic. With EU tariffs out of the way I suspect we'll see quite a bit of US food appear on our shelves.
 
Apart from the British Empire, and the USA had a big hand in getting rid of the Empire, can you name one empire in which the conquered got rid of the conqueror.
Normally they are taken down or over by outsiders.
Depends on your definition of outsiders. The collapse of the Western Roman empire was largely initiated by the German's, who were partly in and partly out. The Median empire included Persia who subsequently overpowered them, the Babylonians swapped roles with the Assyrians. The Muslims who conquered much of the Eastern Roman empire were technically part of the empire until their revolt. As I mentioned China is a long list of Dynasty changes that are cyclical empire building/collapse scenarios. It's a fair point that many empires also fall to outside intervention.
 

Unremarkable

Old-Salt
Depends on your definition of outsiders. The collapse of the Western Roman empire was largely initiated by the German's, who were partly in and partly out. The Median empire included Persia who subsequently overpowered them, the Babylonians swapped roles with the Assyrians. The Muslims who conquered much of the Eastern Roman empire were technically part of the empire until their revolt. As I mentioned China is a long list of Dynasty changes that are cyclical empire building/collapse scenarios. It's a fair point that many empires also fall to outside intervention.
The overthrow of the Mongol Yueh Dynasty by the Ming and the Manchu Qing Dynasty by the Republic are good examples.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Ken's experience was a long time ago, and this is the sad part, it is still valid because nothing has changed since then. If anything things are worse.

My bold .. True, but I have made a point of trying to keep abreast of events in central Africa, Zambia in particular, often from local, Zambian, newspapers and from others I know who have visited the area, one this year.
As for beardy profs assertions that it was just my opinion, perhaps if he had read this thread he would note that I made a point of mentioning a couple of books, "No better life" and the "Northern Rhodesian record" written by others, some of whom spent most of their working life there, both before and after my time there. Indeed the NRR was written specifically to counter the numerous occurrences of the rewriting of history being carried out by some so called academics, the BBC & other left wing organs intent on destroying our laudable colonial past. The doctorate thesis quoted by "twentyfirstoffoot" appears to be written by someone who has never set foot in the country or if he/she did, some 50 years AFTER colonial rule finished, relying on records that were amended to suit the new African political leaders.
I have said it before, it saddens me to see a country, nay a continent, that was thriving and improving under British stewardship collapse into the chaotic mess we see in virtually all sub Saharan Africa within weeks of our departure!
 
Comparing apples and oranges though isn't he? Your post is very interesting by the way.

The fact that others do the same as we did does not make us right it just makes the others as wrong as we were. Which, I think you established by investigating the incident you describe thoroughly?
Apologies, I didn't answer your last point there. My tale above really illustrates the primitive standards of governance endemic in African states; standards which were common before lines were drawn on the maps, and probably as acceptable to today's social anthropologists as those common in some European nations then. They're tribal-level in political and economic value to people whose worldview in the 'Independence' era rarely extended beyond a field of maize and a precious mango tree. Unfortunately, a feedback loop operated at and after Independence, whereby suddenly-acquired power, unmatched with experience or realistic vision, took those societies back to tribal models of governance (or weird distortions of socialism; vide Nyerere et al).

If my due diligence in northern Angola had been commissioned by the Government, it would have been a tremendous step forward (and pretty startling) but it only happened after a crusading journalist stepped on the reputational toes of a (Brazilian) miner, whose interest was solely in their P&L account. Western miners and other extractive industry multinationals place enormous emphasis on safety, community and government relations, and it costs a lot, but they place more on investor and stockholder relations. Blood, as Salozzo said, is a major expense.
 
When I told my men I would be leaving, their response was "why", I had to explain that under independence which was coming in a few months time, we, the Europeans, weren't wanted by the African politicians.
To a man they were unhappy at this saying that tribalism would raise its ugly head and those at the top of the pecking order would immediately favour their tribal brethren and corruption/nepotism would become rife. Any of you who read the book by another NR policeman "No better life", would see his experiences when he stayed for a year or so after independence, show this happening literally weeks after the event.
Not read, but I have read Hilary Hook's excellent Home From The Hill. Hook was a major (bimbashi) in the Sudan Defence Force and his NCOs said pretty much exactly the same thing. The Sudan 'went well' too.
 

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