U18s to be excused prison in Scotland

Under 18s will no longer be sent to young offenders institutions


This is not another attempt to fuel the flog em and hang em outrage bus, but to take a hard look at our political elite and question their fitness for purpose and relevance to society at large. This proposal suggests that they have never met a teenage delinquent in the flesh on their home turf, and have certainly never been inside the drug raddled buildings that they identify as home.

...ministers said they would fund "care-based alternatives" and shift the approach from "one of punishment to one of love and support".

Who on earth do they imagine is going to provide this love and support? The single parent mum who had a very similar upbringing or the dad they haven't seen since he went down for a stretch in the big house? The architects of this proposal just reek of the soft middle class sixth form common room. It seems to be a reworking of Cameron's "hug a hoodie" initiative, just as ill informed, but more dangerous.

Note that Queen Nicola has signed the covers with pledges of support "I will keep the promise".

1648809400899.png
 

CSM's Despair..

On ROPS
On ROPs
It's a rehash of a failed New Labour policy. The Tories - the Nasty Party - put children in prison, so New Labour wouldn't.

The result was a generation of feral teens who knew they couldn't be punished beyond a caution or a derisory community sentence. It was a licence to run riot and Joe Public paid the price.
 

CSM's Despair..

On ROPS
On ROPs
I am increasingly becoming a supporter of independence for Scotland.

It's not a bad idea.

  • Offer the various islands a form of Crown Dependency status, out of the clutches of Edinburgh.
  • Allow the conservative border regions contiguous with England to remain in the UK.
  • Invite Scotlands professional classes and skilled workers to retain their UK citizenship and move south.
  • Ask the Poles and our friends in the Baltic to veto Scotlands EU application.
  • Systematically sabotage any other Scottish ventures onto the world stage.
  • Generally reduce Scotland to economic vassal status and dictate its foreign policy.
Those are my policy outlines, although I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of what's actually possible.
 
This has been on the cards for at least a year or two now as I follow the Criminal Youth Justice social media. As someone who worked in secure residential care in Scotland for numerous years, I am sincerely, genuinely relieved I now have a different vocation.

These establishments struggle to care for violent 14-15 year old - typically, though not exclusively - males who 'don't play the game' under a Child Supervision Order (CSO) much less a 16-17 year old who has been remanded through the courts for anti-social pro-criminal behaviour.

If you honestly think you can reverse 16-17 years of trauma, adverse childhood experiences etc with a few months in secure care, you are deluded, and your staff are going to pay for your hubris and misguided 'good intentions' with marked increased violence towards them.

My solution? Earlier intervention. It's basic child psychology. You need to get these kids into the care system while their age is still in single digits, the lower the better, and you need to have proper exit/ transition plans for these kids back into the community rather than the current strategy of returning them to communities where they demonstrated/ indulged in adverse behaviours, experienced CCE/ CSE etc.

This is a topic close to heart for me.
 

rgjbloke

On ROPS
On ROPs
I think the UK fails British youth completely in many ways. Just look at the babies and toddlers murdered by their parents or close family associates for example. Many of those kids were known to the authorities and still were killed.

Moving onto older children, it’s a two pronged failure. Firstly, there are totally insufficient resources to deal with the problems in communities that allow children to sink into anti social behaviour and secondly, we fail to provide opportunities for children to grasp the future through education.

You show young minds a positive way forward to a better life and many of them will look around themselves and grab the opportunities. Most of them as it stands don’t have a clue what’s achievable if they set their minds to it because no one tells them. Not their parents, not the authorities, nobody explains to them how to open doors to a prosperous and happy future.

The whole thing needs a complete re-examination of what we should be doing to protect children and prepare them for their adult lives.

It isn’t ever going to happen though because it needs investment in an infrastructure specifically for these things to happen.

Why spend money on kids either on their safety or their future direction when we can ignore the problem because no one cares about the future of our society.
 
It's not a bad idea.

  • Offer the various islands a form of Crown Dependency status, out of the clutches of Edinburgh.
  • Allow the conservative border regions contiguous with England to remain in the UK.
  • Invite Scotlands professional classes and skilled workers to retain their UK citizenship and move south.
  • Ask the Poles and our friends in the Baltic to veto Scotlands EU application.
  • Systematically sabotage any other Scottish ventures onto the world stage.
  • Generally reduce Scotland to economic vassal status and dictate its foreign policy.
Those are my policy outlines, although I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of what's actually possible.
Sounds familiar. Will it end with a special peace-keeping mission to both de-militarise the rump and de-Nazify the political leadership?
 

Under 18s will no longer be sent to young offenders institutions


This is not another attempt to fuel the flog em and hang em outrage bus, but to take a hard look at our political elite and question their fitness for purpose and relevance to society at large. This proposal suggests that they have never met a teenage delinquent in the flesh on their home turf, and have certainly never been inside the drug raddled buildings that they identify as home.



Who on earth do they imagine is going to provide this love and support? The single parent mum who had a very similar upbringing or the dad they haven't seen since he went down for a stretch in the big house? The architects of this proposal just reek of the soft middle class sixth form common room. It seems to be a reworking of Cameron's "hug a hoodie" initiative, just as ill informed, but more dangerous.

Note that Queen Nicola has signed the covers with pledges of support "I will keep the promise".

View attachment 652015
All I can see is three fat lesbians
 

CSM's Despair..

On ROPS
On ROPs
Sounds familiar. Will it end with a special peace-keeping mission to both de-militarise the rump and de-Nazify the political leadership?

Nope.

No need for military adventurism. Worse case scenario, we'll build a modern version of Hadrian's Wall and police the northern side with drones.
 

CSM's Despair..

On ROPS
On ROPs
This has been on the cards for at least a year or two now as I follow the Criminal Youth Justice social media. As someone who worked in secure residential care in Scotland for numerous years, I am sincerely, genuinely relieved I now have a different vocation.

These establishments struggle to care for violent 14-15 year old - typically, though not exclusively - males who 'don't play the game' under a Child Supervision Order (CSO) much less a 16-17 year old who has been remanded through the courts for anti-social pro-criminal behaviour.

If you honestly think you can reverse 16-17 years of trauma, adverse childhood experiences etc with a few months in secure care, you are deluded, and your staff are going to pay for your hubris and misguided 'good intentions' with marked increased violence towards them.

My solution? Earlier intervention. It's basic child psychology. You need to get these kids into the care system while their age is still in single digits, the lower the better, and you need to have proper exit/ transition plans for these kids back into the community rather than the current strategy of returning them to communities where they demonstrated/ indulged in adverse behaviours, experienced CCE/ CSE etc.

This is a topic close to heart for me.

Stop scum from having children. The issue of damaged teens on the rampage will be reduced within a generation. The state might then be able to afford holistic care packages for problem kids.
 
Anyone else read that as, 'executed in', and started nodding their head?

Anyway - as said above, society needs a massive shake up, a reduction of numbers, and somehow some sort of civic and cultural pride. I can't claim to have the answers but I know this isn't the way forward.
 
Stop scum from having children. The issue of damaged teens on the rampage will be reduced within a generation. The state might then be able to afford holistic care packages for problem kids.

But muh 'uman rights innit!

Believe me, the Scottish state has a blank cheque for this endeavour; it presently costs a local authority/ Scottish Government ~£6-7k/ week to place a young person into secure care. That's a third of a million/ year.

Can you imagine what a promising pro-social child who actually wishes to seize such opportunities said funding enables could achieve?

All the money in the world isn't going to 'fix' a young person who through years of neglect and abuse the manner in which they now behave in society is 'right' and that you as the 'adult' are 'wrong' and to be held in contempt.
 

CC_TA

LE
It's not a bad idea.

  • Offer the various islands a form of Crown Dependency status, out of the clutches of Edinburgh.
  • Allow the conservative border regions contiguous with England to remain in the UK.
  • Invite Scotlands professional classes and skilled workers to retain their UK citizenship and move south.
  • Ask the Poles and our friends in the Baltic to veto Scotlands EU application.
  • Systematically sabotage any other Scottish ventures onto the world stage.
  • Generally reduce Scotland to economic vassal status and dictate its foreign policy.
Those are my policy outlines, although I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of what's actually possible.

Remove Nuclear fleet & defence ship building, remove them from the use of Sterling (They want to keep it and not take the Euro. Except all new EU members must take the Euro.) ban exports of Buckfast to Scotland, send back Burns related crap, ban haggis, execute the Krankies, rebuild Hadrian's Wall and make them pay for it... :)
 
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I think the UK fails British youth completely in many ways. Just look at the babies and toddlers murdered by their parents

It's everyones Yuman Rite to breed - That some are not fit to breed is never addressed / dealt with.

You show young minds a positive way forward to a better life and many of them will look around themselves and grab the opportunities.

Too many adopt the get rich quick mantra - Usually by illegal means.

Why spend money on kids either on their safety or their future direction when we can ignore the problem because no one cares about the future of our society.

We do spend money on kids - That is why there are far more kids who are decent people, who contribute to society, than there are feral kids.

Feral kids have always been a part of modern society - The ones with gumption and something about them drag themselves away from the feral life.
 
So I have a question...

What happens when you get a James Bulger style incident? Here's £200, off you go back home?

They'll be placed in secure care much like young people who have committed similar serious crimes whereby they'll undertake specific targeted interventions to address maladaptive behaviours that caused them to act in such a manner.

Once successfully rehabilitated having minimised their risk of recidivism they'll undertake a comprehensive transition package back into the community.
 

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