U.S. Marines, British Civilian Advisers at odds in Helmand

#2
Manning sounds like a good bloke.
I wonder how well he'd have done with his hands tied by political masters and only 10% of the forces needed to safely complete the mission?
 
#3
Perhaps (highly unlikely) some of these reports should filter back into the mainstream media here in the UK, for once highlighting how our 'war on a budget' is not only costing lives but making us look like incompetent idiots in front of our allies, we are making good progress into becoming a laughing stock in the region, we half-arsed Basra and by the look of things will not be participating in combat operations in Helmand within a few years and not because the job is done or that we have reached some form of success at great cost but because it's either too expensive or there is an election coming.
All well and good but how will the families of the dead and the hundreds of men and women now minus bits of themselves feel when it was all for nothing but a bad reputation and the shame of retreat, or withdrawal in tune with media friendly spin.
 

Flyingrockdj

War Hero
Moderator
#4
Good to see the spams re writing history already- that they had to save Basra in 2007.

Load of bollocks and more reason to abandon the speshul relation ship- it's run it's course and is now finished.
 
#5
The top Marine commander in Helmand, Maj. Gen. Richard Mills

He keeps a wooden sign in a trunk in his office that reads, "Promise Everything, Deliver Nothing." He said he found it in an encampment that British engineers had vacated. "That was their attitude," he said.

Nice to see he found someones sarcastic outlook on the afghan way and thinks it real
 
#6
An unpalatable read JJH, which deserves further reflection rather than dismissing it as prejudice against the Brits.
Whilst clearly the UK does not have the resources of our sceptical cousins, it’s absurd that we perpetuate the fallacy of our capacity with PRTs.
Manning’s scepticism is not misplaced.
Lest we forget it was the FCO who volunteered the UK to take the lead on poppy eradication in 2002, and look how that turned out.
However all these tactical stories tend to overlook the elephant in the room – that we are fighting to preserve Karzai’s kleptocracy, which has no credibility with the afghan people unless they themselves are on his payroll.
The run on the Kabul Bank last week showed the people’s confidence in his brother’s bank
From the same paper & the same day
U.S. To Tolerate Corruption In Latest Afghan Strategy
 
#7
The top Marine commander in Helmand, Maj. Gen. Richard Mills

He keeps a wooden sign in a trunk in his office that reads, "Promise Everything, Deliver Nothing." He said he found it in an encampment that British engineers had vacated. "That was their attitude," he said.

Nice to see he found someones sarcastic outlook on the afghan way and thinks it real

Yes, I have no doubt whatever that an officer of his experience would form his opinions, and more importantly his actions in the field, solely on a sign, the likes of which can be found in every USMC (and from my own experience other services) support unit and that he has no doubt seen before for what it is.

Could it possibly (and I know this is a reach for some on here) that there may be a bit more than SEPTIC/SPAM or whatever arrogance, stupidity, and anti-UK bias at play that warrants at least a discussion, if not introspection?
 
#8
An unpalatable read JJH, which deserves further reflection rather than dismissing it as prejudice against the Brits.
Whilst clearly the UK does not have the resources of our sceptical cousins, it’s absurd that we perpetuate the fallacy of our capacity with PRTs.
Manning’s scepticism is not misplaced.
Lest we forget it was the FCO who volunteered the UK to take the lead on poppy eradication in 2002, and look how that turned out.
However all these tactical stories tend to overlook the elephant in the room – that we are fighting to preserve Karzai’s kleptocracy, which has no credibility with the afghan people unless they themselves are on his payroll.
The run on the Kabul Bank last week showed the people’s confidence in his brother’s bank
From the same paper & the same day
U.S. To Tolerate Corruption In Latest Afghan Strategy
I would hope that by now no ARRSER would equate my merely posting an article from any news source, much less the Washington (Com)post, as being authoritative on the subject or as representing my views.
 
#9
You're right JJ, a bit of introspection is called for.

Ironically, that goes both ways and I'm sure it won't be long before you tire of fielding deserved criticism and level the accusation of anti-spam bias...
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Well at least our British actors will be busy once the Hollywood films come out
2 Foot wide beret,jump wings on the wrong arm and cut glass English accent with a hint of Dick Van Dyke Cock a knee
"We don't patrol out there me old septic mate it's full of taliban and it's how we did it in Northan Earland me ol muccka"

Cue bronzed Jar Head with perfect teath and a cigar

"The hell we will the Marines are here to stay Taliban are pussies OOOOrrrraaaahhhhh"
 
#11
Lt. Col. Michael Manning is the Officer quoted, his Boss actually said this
The top Marine commander in Helmand, Maj. Gen. Richard Mills, played down the tensions between his forces and British civilians. He said the changes that have occurred in Musa Qala would not have been possible without the British having "paid a large price in blood" in the district over the past three years. "We went in with different tactics, but our success is based on the work that was done before," he said in an interview.
Since they have been there since March in strength. Is it only natural, for comparisons to become twisted suiting the reporters agenda or the Editors aim.
 
#12
You're right JJ, a bit of introspection is called for.

Ironically, that goes both ways and I'm sure it won't be long before you tire of fielding deserved criticism and level the accusation of anti-spam bias...
Actually, and I realiz(s)e it may come as a bit of a shock given the suggestion of your clever post that we SPAMS are incapable of such things, I have already discerned the two-way phenomenon of which you speak and have actually "fielded deserved criticism" and even (gasp) agreed with some of it. I have also already noted the anti-spam bias of some posters but in so noting it, I do try to avoid the incredible broadsides that characteriz(s)e their irrationality.
 
#13
Well at least our British actors will be busy once the Hollywood films come out
2 Foot wide beret,jump wings on the wrong arm and cut glass English accent with a hint of Dick Van Dyke Cock a knee
"We don't patrol out there me old septic mate it's full of taliban and it's how we did it in Northan Earland me ol muccka"

Cue bronzed Jar Head with perfect teath and a cigar

"The hell we will the Marines are here to stay Taliban are pussies OOOOrrrraaaahhhhh"
Indeed so. A blockbuster in the making. ;-)
 
#14
Lt. Col. Michael Manning is the Officer quoted, his Boss actually said this


Since they have been there since March in strength. Is it only natural, for comparisons to become twisted suiting the reporters agenda or the Editors aim.

Surely you are not suggesting the Washington (Com)post would stoop to such manipulations to drive a wedge between allies? Oh the journalistic horror! I am also confident that a paper of such "high" standing would never stoop to including tasty little bits aimed at stirring up the feelings of its readers.
 
#16
The top Marine commander in Helmand, Maj. Gen. Richard Mills

He keeps a wooden sign in a trunk in his office that reads, "Promise Everything, Deliver Nothing." He said he found it in an encampment that British engineers had vacated. "That was their attitude," he said.

Nice to see he found someones sarcastic outlook on the afghan way and thinks it real
Based on my past experiences with them, the US Marines don't do sarcasm, or any other kind of humour, much. Regardless, it was fun convincing some US Marines officers that no one in Britain was allowed to own a Corgie. The reason? Because it was the Royal dog and only the Queen could own them. "My gard, that Queen of yours is trampling on your human rights!" they'd exclaim... "Yes, of course, but we can't say much about it or they'd send us to the Tower" we'd reply, heads bowed and voices hushed in mock fear. Classic...
 
#17
Good to see the spams re writing history already- that they had to save Basra in 2007.

Load of bollocks and more reason to abandon the speshul relation ship- it's run it's course and is now finished.

I would be keen to know how you think the Yanks are "re-writing" history by saying that they had to step up in our place in Basra? The entire city went to pot as soon as we pulled out and then we sat idle on our arrses in the COB and looked on as the Yank and Iraqi units were left to deal with it. As it stands today, Yank forces are still holding the line down there.
If I was a Yank I would be pretty bloody scathing about us too.

And to top it all off we now have a repeat performance going on in Helmand province because us Brits no longer have the stomach or the ability to do it ourselves.

In the space of a decade The British Army has gone from being regarded as a well respected COIN force to a laughing stock.

I can fully understand why the Yanks may no longer wish to have anything to do with us.
 
#18
We (the British) are just as bad at accepting criticism as the Americans, in general of course. If not worse so there isn't any point throwing such aspersions around - often it is more in individual thing regardless of nationality, so northern monkey, or desktopcommando, you are pretty good examples of that yourself?

I'm sure, if I suggested to you that we were beaten in Basra, and that is forever to our shame - because, like it or not a successful COIN operation needs full integration between political and military force, and we simply did not do that. That is OUR fault, and as inescapable as the fact that US is pretty much better than us at these operations nowadays. Past glories are all very well, if you maintain them. We haven't.


On the other hand the US re-writing of history is infuriating, but fair play to the film industry, they are simply appealing to the market.


Not as bad as the French at accepting criticism, mind...
 
#19
British advisor: Err are you sure that is the right village and sure a B52 strike is proportianate response

Lootenant colonel killgore: Sweet Enola gay son you Limeys aint gots no backbone now get on with the younighted staytes for the big win Hoo raaa.
Or something like that from the people who gave us Mai Lai in not so recent history
 
#20
Yes, I have no doubt whatever that an officer of his experience would form his opinions, and more importantly his actions in the field, solely on a sign, the likes of which can be found in every USMC (and from my own experience other services) support unit and that he has no doubt seen before for what it is.

Could it possibly (and I know this is a reach for some on here) that there may be a bit more than SEPTIC/SPAM or whatever arrogance, stupidity, and anti-UK bias at play that warrants at least a discussion, if not introspection?
You are a commitee in the Pentagon or perhaps Quantico posing as an incontinent 65 yr old and I claim my £5 (or as you prefer $7). You take the view that this could be a two way street without wondering whether your commitee is actually overbrearing and introspecive because you are retarded inward looking mongtards. Ever wondered what the rest of the world thinks of Spamsville and why that is?

No, didn't think so.
 

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