Type 31 Frigate

Consider the source before jumping to any conclusions.

The US planned on putting 57mm guns on their Zumwalt destroyers but used 30mm guns instead to save weight and reduce cost. These are secondary armament to provide close in defence against small boats and 30mm is considered adequate for that (although you'd never know it if you had been following the OPV thread where someone was insisting that the 30mm gun was useless and only a 76mm gun would do for this). I'm not sure what the weight issue is with the ships, but it was apparently a factor in this decision as well.

The Zumwalts are considered to be a massive failure and the US was looking to cut their losses on them. The 57mm would have required integration into the ships' fire control system, while the 30mm gun is self contained and could be just bolted on cheaply. They have deleted a number of other advanced features from the ships just to get them into service without sinking more money into them than they had to. The radar has also been downgraded, stealth more or less binned or at least not a consideration any more, and the special ammunition for the main guns (155mm) has been cancelled, rendering the main feature of the ship pointless. Cutting the 57mm guns is just one small part of a lot of corners being cut on those ships.

Meanwhile BAE sold more 57mm guns to the US for installation on other ships a few months ago.

The Germans have just bought some as well.
"The Mk110 guns would have been integrated into the Zumwalt's advanced combat system. The 30mm Bushmaster, on the other hand, is a standalone and self contained system that is as close to 'plug and play' as you can get for the capability it provides. The operator literally sits inside the cupola and directs the cannon using thermal and electro-optical sensors built into the turret".

1568639410456.png


"Installing the MK46 Bushmaster 30mm gun system aboard a San Antonio class amphib".

 
So, all the arguments in the OPV thread about why the RN couldn't buy another gun system and T31 is getting two new guns. Right... :roll:
The agreed timeframe will see steel cut in 2021, the first vessel in the water in 2023
It's a helluva big ship to carry three medium-calibre guns and a helo. Call me cynical, say what you will...
Navy can deliver broadsides... @Guns will be orgasmic!

Simply in-built capacity for upgrades. What happened to the T23?
 
And twenty-four Sea Ceptor with the radar and combat system to use them, and SWAP for lots of other "we know we'll want these but let's get the hulls bought first" additions downstream. These aren't ships you send into a serious fight, but they should have some options for shooting their way out of a scrap.

Ideal it's not, but it's turning out better than I'd initially expected (which was five overgrown OPVs that would get mistaken for proper warships without the scope to grow)
@History_Man what he said!
 
I take it they will be using the Type 23 mushroom farm for CAAMS?
 
Consider the source before jumping to any conclusions.

The US planned on putting 57mm guns on their Zumwalt destroyers but used 30mm guns instead to save weight and reduce cost. These are secondary armament to provide close in defence against small boats and 30mm is considered adequate for that (although you'd never know it if you had been following the OPV thread where someone was insisting that the 30mm gun was useless and only a 76mm gun would do for this). I'm not sure what the weight issue is with the ships, but it was apparently a factor in this decision as well.

The Zumwalts are considered to be a massive failure and the US was looking to cut their losses on them. The 57mm would have required integration into the ships' fire control system, while the 30mm gun is self contained and could be just bolted on cheaply. They have deleted a number of other advanced features from the ships just to get them into service without sinking more money into them than they had to. The radar has also been downgraded, stealth more or less binned or at least not a consideration any more, and the special ammunition for the main guns (155mm) has been cancelled, rendering the main feature of the ship pointless. Cutting the 57mm guns is just one small part of a lot of corners being cut on those ships.

Meanwhile BAE sold more 57mm guns to the US for installation on other ships a few months ago.

The Germans have just bought some as well.

FFG(X), the USN’s ‘T31’ will not be using the 57mm toy gun.
76 has a credible NGS capability, the 57 doesn't.
 
And twenty-four Sea Ceptor with the radar and combat system to use them, and SWAP for lots of other "we know we'll want these but let's get the hulls bought first" additions downstream. These aren't ships you send into a serious fight, but they should have some options for shooting their way out of a scrap.

Ideal it's not, but it's turning out better than I'd initially expected (which was five overgrown OPVs that would get mistaken for proper warships without the scope to grow)

Qualify the anti surface mode on Sea Ceptor and you’d be getting somewhere.
 
Consider the source before jumping to any conclusions.

The US planned on putting 57mm guns on their Zumwalt destroyers but used 30mm guns instead to save weight and reduce cost. These are secondary armament to provide close in defence against small boats and 30mm is considered adequate for that (although you'd never know it if you had been following the OPV thread where someone was insisting that the 30mm gun was useless and only a 76mm gun would do for this). /[/URL]
Heavens, apples and oranges. It was suggested as a MAIN gun, not a secondary one. However, you knew that before posting, right?
 
I wouldn't have thought so - as I understood it the Mushroom farm is because CAAMS bigger and its launch tube supported differently - Logically then T31 being designed for caam from off wont need this
There's no mention of Mk41 VLS, as I suppose they're too expensive at a £250 million per ship.

I was thinking would they take the silos from the Type 23's as they retire from service?
 
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And twenty-four Sea Ceptor with the radar and combat system to use them, and SWAP for lots of other "we know we'll want these but let's get the hulls bought first" additions downstream. These aren't ships you send into a serious fight, but they should have some options for shooting their way out of a scrap.

Ideal it's not, but it's turning out better than I'd initially expected (which was five overgrown OPVs that would get mistaken for proper warships without the scope to grow)

Can the 4.5" Mark 8 from the Type 23's be retro fitted at a later date? Or does that option end when they start nailing the ships together?
 

cookie65

Old-Salt
There's no mention of Mk41/45 VLS, as I suppose they're too expensive at a £250 million per ship.

I was thinking would they take the silos from the Type 23's as they retire from service?
The closest I can find to prices for mk41 is 31 to 33 M USD for a 12 cell module hardware only, and 51-54 M USD all in with spare,support etc. These prices are very speculative indeed.
 
There's no mention of Mk41/45 VLS, as I suppose they're too expensive at a £250 million per ship.

I was thinking would they take the silos from the Type 23's as they retire from service?
Can the 4.5" Mark 8 from the Type 23's be retro fitted at a later date? Or does that option end when they start nailing the ships together?
Two very sensible suggestions.

But when did that influence the MoD ?! :( .

 

Mattb

LE
I still think that there’s milage in my VLS SPEAR 3 idea, although with only 24 cells in total the number a T31 could carry would be rather limited.
 
I still think that there’s milage in my VLS SPEAR 3 idea, although with only 24 cells in total the number a T31 could carry would be rather limited.
There was a day when I thought that I was going up against some people who were armed with AKs, said goodbye to M+D and jumped out the car with my Browning 9mm and ran towards them.

Rememberhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxMoGzHvm5Q something is better than nothing when you want to take the fight to the enemy.
 

Himmler

On ROPS
On ROPs
There was a day when I thought that I was going up against some people who were armed with AKs, said goodbye to M+D and jumped out the car with my Browning 9mm and ran towards them.

Remember something is better than nothing when you want to take the fight to the enemy.
BZ
 

Mattb

LE
There was a day when I thought that I was going up against some people who were armed with AKs, said goodbye to M+D and jumped out the car with my Browning 9mm and ran towards them.

Rememberhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxMoGzHvm5Q something is better than nothing when you want to take the fight to the enemy.
Absolutely, my point was more that carrying loads of Sea Spear would reduce the defensive armament, as each would displace a Sea Ceptor.
 
Absolutely, my point was more that carrying loads of Sea Spear would reduce the defensive armament, as each would displace a Sea Ceptor.
Iver Huitfeldt in Danish service seems to have room for a 32 cells of Mk41 and 12 cells of Mk56.

I'm unsure of the area that various VLS cells take up, but how many Mk41 cells and SeaCeptor Exls quad packed launchers, could you fit in the area, currently available at the moment for missile weapons?

Hypothetical maximum missile loadout if the money was there in the future.
 

2ndrow

Crow
Different combat management system ... so five week conversion training course for personnel

Another interesting example of standardisation - lets see how many different systems we can support
 

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