Type 31 Frigate

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Change of PM soon, and tankers being limpetted in the Gulf.. Not to mention interfered with in various ports around the region.

Any sign of hope or even a change in the mood music?
 
For information . . . .

1563963207531.png


 
So less than 50% of the escort fleet available for taskings?
A point I made on a different thread yesterday.

Remember though the RN has a lot of standing commitments which soak up all of the Fleet pretty much so very little available for tasking. So the question should be "which tasks are being gapped now that the Gulf has kicked off and half the fleet is off the road?"
 
Harland and Wolff is about to fold and shut the gates for good as it seems a buyer has pulled out.
They are part of the consortium on two different bids for the Type 31. The Atlas and the Arrowhead 140.

I believe Ferguson Marine on the Clyde, are being nationalised by the Scottish government, they are part of the same two consortiums as Harland and Wolff.
 
A point I made on a different thread yesterday.

Remember though the RN has a lot of standing commitments which soak up all of the Fleet pretty much so very little available for tasking. So the question should be "which tasks are being gapped now that the Gulf has kicked off and half the fleet is off the road?"
That makes it worse!

47% of the escort fleet is available to do standing and other taskings
 
I have no idea as I'm not an expert, but to a layman that level of availability with the already low numbers to begin with seems poor.
you will note that the bulk of the laid up T23s are because they are going through a Life Extension Refit - blame the politicians etc who dragged their feet on placing and funding the T26 contract and the admirals that pushed for full scale carriers rather than uplifting or replacing the far cheaper and lighter manned illustrious/ark royal class - but none of this matters because the RN does not, and will not, have enough crews for all of the ships they have on the books. Its not just down to poor recruiting methods as the yoof of today are not as interested in the forces as previous generations because they are far richer and have more options such as widespread access to Uni corses.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
you will note that the bulk of the laid up T23s are because they are going through a Life Extension Refit - blame the politicians etc who dragged their feet on placing and funding the T26 contract and the admirals that pushed for full scale carriers rather than uplifting or replacing the far cheaper and lighter manned illustrious/ark royal class - but none of this matters because the RN does not, and will not, have enough crews for all of the ships they have on the books. Its not just down to poor recruiting methods as the yoof of today are not as interested in the forces as previous generations because they are far richer and have more options such as widespread access to Uni corses.
Your point about light carriers is nonsense. Replacing the Invincible class with something similar made no sense at all.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
So less than 50% of the escort fleet available for taskings?
And therein is a point. The constant thinking in many people's minds is that we have six destroyers and 13 frigates, or 19 in total.

Currently, we have nine of all types. And let's not ask about SSNs, eh?

Typically, in a balanced fleet, you'd expect about a third to be in refit at any one time. We have nearly have the frigates (one more and it would be over 50 percent) and two-thirds of the destroyers.

Thats how thin we are. It's unforgivable.

And in terms of manpower, we're a nation - officially - of 60 million people. If we can't man/woman/other that many ships from a population of that size, then we really, really need to be asking questions about recruitment, terms of service, quality of life and, ultimately, retention.

2 percent of GDP...
 
Your point about light carriers is nonsense. Replacing the Invincible class with something similar made no sense at all.
Having 2 full size fleet carriers we cannot fully man with personnel or equip with aircraft effectively leaves us with just one available carrier - where do you position it? having 2 or 3 less capable but still effective light carriers would give us far more options to cover ops and refits
 
Having 2 full size fleet carriers we cannot fully man with personnel or equip with aircraft effectively leaves us with just one available carrier - where do you position it? having 2 or 3 less capable but still effective light carriers would give us far more options to cover ops and refits
According to google Invincible crew size figures range between 650 - 680 and CVF 680 - 700 - Im not seeing this causing a massive extra burden on manpower.
If Invinciblke MK2s were built the same problems would occur - because it relates to cuts in 2010 not ship size
 
I have no idea as I'm not an expert, but to a layman that level of availability with the already low numbers to begin with seems poor.
We have four SSBN. We generally only have one on ops (RELENTLESS) though there are two of them when handing over. That gives an operational availability of something less than 50%. As a layman, do you consider that to be poor?
 
We have four SSBN. We generally only have one on ops (RELENTLESS) though there are two of them when handing over. That gives an operational availability of something less than 50%. As a layman, do you consider that to be poor?
Simple reply, a question that can not be answered until this one is, "how many do we need?"
 
Rough rule of thumb for availability of complex warships (e.g CV/DD/FF) and SSN/SSBN but all dependent on point of individual platforms in their operational/maintenance cycles:

4 to keep 1 on permanent operational task plus one on task part-time with a possible temporary surge of 3.​
3 to keep 1 on operational task near permanently with a possible temporary surge of 2.​
2 to keep 1 on operational task most of the time with a rare temporary surge of 2.​

Surges are seriously disruptive and require considerable time afterwards for regeneration. Allowance must also be made for contingencies such as major breakdowns, collision, groundings, etc.

Non-task activities include maintenance, system/equipment trials, tactical trials, specialist professional training, whole-ship training, etc. N.B. Only fully operational ships and submarines are fully manned (but sometimes gapped in niche specialist roles) and even sailors need to take a break sometime.

There was a unique occasion when all three of the cramped INVINCIBLE class ‘make-do’ carriers were at sea simultaneously but only one of them could be counted as fully operational.

Three RN carriers.jpg
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Rough rule of thumb for availability of complex warships (e.g CV/DD/FF) and SSN/SSBN but all dependent on point of individual platforms in their operational/maintenance cycles:

4 to keep 1 on permanent operational task plus one on task part-time with a possible temporary surge of 3.​
3 to keep 1 on operational task near permanently with a possible temporary surge of 2.​
2 to keep 1 on operational task most of the time with a rare temporary surge of 2.​

Surges are seriously disruptive and require considerable time afterwards for regeneration. Allowance must also be made for contingencies such as major breakdowns, collision, groundings, etc.

Non-task activities include maintenance, system/equipment trials, tactical trials, specialist professional training, whole-ship training, etc. N.B. Only fully operational ships and submarines are fully manned (but sometimes gapped in niche specialist roles) and even sailors need to take a break sometime.

There was a unique occasion when all three of the cramped INVINCIBLE class ‘make-do’ carriers were at sea simultaneously but only one of them could be counted as fully operational.

View attachment 406108
Is it an optical illusion, or is the middle of the three lacking a ski jump in that photo?
 
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