Type 31 Frigate

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Can't see that being the winner (thought I might well be proved wrong). I know I've said it before but I suspect we'll end up with the Leander/River batch 3.
Interesting design but, as others have suggested, it's all going to be about money and the cheapest option is likely to be the winner. Not sure if the MEKO or the Arrow are going to come out cheaper than the Leander...
Personally I think the Arrowhead is a better fit, because it has the size to upgrade in the future, Meko and Leander not so much. But likely Leander will win out
 
Personally I think the Arrowhead is a better fit, because it has the size to upgrade in the future, Meko and Leander not so much. But likely Leander will win out
Yup, Arrowhead looks like the better platform with room to grow in the future if required, but suspect it'll come down to money and Leander looks like the cheap nasty option from the three.
 
with the hard acquisition price ceiling, I expect that there will be extreme nervousness about the whole-life costs and the risk appetite might drive the decision more than future capability options
 
I'd like to see some significant weighting given regarding jobs & skill retention when considering the costs, as both are significant economic benefits should the ships be built in the UK.
 
I've just noticed that Arrowhead at 5,700 tonnes is slightly heavier than the WW2 Dido class light cruisers & twice times that of some of the larger WW2 destroyer classes.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
The T31e fantasy cheap Frigate is dead.

Sir is going to have to go back to the treasury with his begging bowl and get a few Billion if he want 5 ‘cheap’, barely armed light Frigates coz they forgot to fund them in the first place.

Now in the real world, the worlds awash with cheap pretend frigate designs and no one wanted T31, not even the RN particularly

Cheap replace T31 quick fix, up gun the 5 Batch 2 OPVs with a 76 and some light weight ASMs and rebrand then as Frigates, no design work required, questions already been asked, already fitted for but not with, they are as big as a Leander was, and then tag a couple of 26’s on the end of the current orders and step up the build drumbeat.
 
The T31e fantasy cheap Frigate is dead.

Sir is going to have to go back to the treasury with his begging bowl and get a few Billion if he want 5 ‘cheap’, barely armed light Frigates coz they forgot to fund them in the first place.

Now in the real world, the worlds awash with cheap pretend frigate designs and no one wanted T31, not even the RN particularly

Cheap replace T31 quick fix, up gun the 5 Batch 2 OPVs with a 76 and some light weight ASMs and rebrand then as Frigates, no design work required, questions already been asked, already fitted for but not with, they are as big as a Leander was, and then tag a couple of 26’s on the end of the current orders and step up the build drumbeat.
Ah! You read my earlier post ;) !!

Thank you for both those posts.

I am sure it has already been discussed, and that I risk causing apoplexy (and spilt glasses of port), by resurrecting the following suggestion, but . . .

If I can refer to the “trip wire” NATO armies, that are stationed/committed to, the three Baltic States. It is acknowledged that they will react - bravely - if required to actually fight. But, that the primary reason for their presence is to act as a “trip wire”, with all the implications involved. That is to act as a “deterrence”. Not in/of themselves, but in/of the consequences if provoked.

Similarly, it might be argued, why (the perceived necessity to), deploy a limited capability/less capable Type 31(e), merely to “show the flag”, knowing that its war fighting capabilities are less than optimum.

Such a role could be adequately fulfilled - and will be in the Falkland Islands - by the River-class Batch 2 OPV.

Again, at the risk of causing apoplexy, and spilt glasses of port, it is suggested that for the (marginal) cost involved, the apparent capability of such River-class Batch 2 OPVs, could only be enhanced by the inclusion of the Oto Melara 76mm gun - as already fitted to the modified River-class patrol vessel operated by the Royal Thai Navy.

View attachment 389639

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Wiki themselves - and, quoting Janes - describes the (proposed) Type 31 frigate, as . . .

Characteristics.
During a July 2016 Defence Select Committee hearing, First Sea Lord Admiral Sir Philip Jones described the GPFF as "to be a much less high-end ship. It is still a complex warship, and it is still able to protect and defend and to exert influence around the world, but it is deliberately shaped with lessons from wider industry and off-the-shelf technology to make it... more appealing to operate at a slightly lower end of Royal Navy operations."[3] IHS Janes described it as a "credible frigate" that will cover "maritime security, maritime counter-terrorism and counter-piracy operations, escort duties, and naval fire support... [sitting] between the high-end capability delivered by the Type 26 and Type 45, and the constabulary-oriented outputs to be delivered by the five planned River-class Batch 2 OPVs."[33] (which have a fixed price of £116 million).


It is suggested that the requirement to perform "maritime security, maritime counter-terrorism and counter-piracy operations, escort duties, and naval fire support", can all be accomplished by a River-class Batch 2 OPV, as described earlier.


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The T31e fantasy cheap Frigate is dead.

Sir is going to have to go back to the treasury with his begging bowl and get a few Billion if he want 5 ‘cheap’, barely armed light Frigates coz they forgot to fund them in the first place.

Now in the real world, the worlds awash with cheap pretend frigate designs and no one wanted T31, not even the RN particularly

Cheap replace T31 quick fix, up gun the 5 Batch 2 OPVs with a 76 and some light weight ASMs and rebrand then as Frigates, no design work required, questions already been asked, already fitted for but not with, they are as big as a Leander was, and then tag a couple of 26’s on the end of the current orders and step up the build drumbeat.
Nope. Removing GFE from the price was announced in February. Precisely nothing has changed from what we already knew, other than the press has had a slow news day.
 
The programme won't be cancelled. The RN doesn't need almost £1bn warships and large crews to carry out the role the T31e is intended for. Better the cost modelling is refined and the figure MoD was given is raised to a more realistic level.
Perhaps not but it does need more warships capable of being deployed as a capable part of a carrier battle group, which the proposed T31 plainly wasn't.
The proposed T31 looked more like a supersized OPV than a warship.
 
Perhaps not but it does need more warships capable of being deployed as a capable part of a carrier battle group, which the proposed T31 plainly wasn't.
The proposed T31 looked more like a supersized OPV than a warship.

It’s what happens when someone who doesn’t believe in the concept gets to form the concept.
 
Perhaps not but it does need more warships capable of being deployed as a capable part of a carrier battle group, which the proposed T31 plainly wasn't.
The proposed T31 looked more like a supersized OPV than a warship.

T31 entered the realms of high Farce when it was pointed out it was 3 times heavier than an OPV, not much more battle worthy, fitted for much the same weapons fit, and cost 3 tomes as much. Yes, the T31 could embark rather than support a helo, but that is rather moot as there are not enough helos to go around the existing ships.
 
T31 entered the realms of high Farce when it was pointed out it was 3 times heavier than an OPV, not much more battle worthy, fitted for much the same weapons fit, and cost 3 tomes as much. Yes, the T31 could embark rather than support a helo, but that is rather moot as there are not enough helos to go around the existing ships.
Is there a source for this reported shortage of rotary assets?
 
Perhaps not but it does need more warships capable of being deployed as a capable part of a carrier battle group, which the proposed T31 plainly wasn't.
The proposed T31 looked more like a supersized OPV than a warship.
Which one of the 3 proposed designs? And what us the source for armament data?
 
Is there a source for this reported shortage of rotary assets?

Officially? No.
But it’s a widely known and accepted issue within the service.
One suggestion has been to nick all the Army’s Wildcats for the RN and use them as GP runabouts.
Numbers ordered of Merlin and Wildcats were cut from the already too small orders to ‘save money), and now the chickens have come home to roost. Doing short term ‘quick fixes’ like taking a sawzall to the ’spare’ (aka, we don’t have enough money to convert them to HM2’s) RN Merlins to use the tails to get the ex RAF ones to sea didn’t help.

In 10 years, helo numbers have halved. Putting the much touted ‘Carrier Strike Group’ to sea would require a maximum effort from the Merlin Fleet.


1557302737306.jpeg
 

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